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To: Singapore_Yank

I keep seeing subtle evidence that the so-called "Arab oppression of women" is not what it seems.

...the Arab language is much more based on its poetic and musical quality than on the valid use of past and present tenses -- which are often mixed up.

...there is a great appreciation of gesture, but not necessarily an emphasis on logic, or on the relationship between cause and effect.

...specific and popular stylistic devices known as mubalagha (exaggeration) and tawkid (overassertion).

...confusion in Arab society over the difference between words and action. Saying that you are going to do something can often become much more significant than actually doing it. Words serve as substitutes for acts.

...many Arabs often do not end up feeling a sense of responsibility for their own failures. To admit that a problem is one?s own fault brings humiliation upon one's self and also shames the group's honor. Thus, the obsession with avoiding shame cancels out the possibility of truthful self-reflection and examination.

...When a problem is confronted in the Arab world, a hidden enemy is often imagined.

...Many Arabs simply grow up believing that success in their societies is simply just supposed to materialize

These are not the characteristics of a culture that is dominated by men.

Camille Paglia once said, "if civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts." Well, these people don't have much grass, so they make their huts out of mud.

Everything we see on the outside says that women are oppressed in those countries. I don't believe it. That culture is run by its women; the whole cultural milieu screams it.

Let the flames begin


72 posted on 11/29/2001 8:54:02 PM PST by Nick Danger
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To: Nick Danger
The hyper yang masculinity of the Arabs turns into it's opposite at the edges. This is how the Arab world gets the feminine traits you see. This paragraph jumped out at me too.

Women are not very influential in a society (religion too) that allows multiple wives. My take is that multiple wives are encouraged for the more alpha of the Arab males. This produces a shortage of women for the rest of the males. Who are then more restless and more eager to go to war. Sort of like China with it oversupply of males due to abortion of female fetuses.

76 posted on 11/30/2001 12:32:13 AM PST by dennisw
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To: Nick Danger
These are not the characteristics of a culture that is dominated by men.

Arab culture is dominated by males. Nothing that says they have to be men. Actually, there's a great deal of evidence to the contrary.

80 posted on 11/30/2001 2:17:30 AM PST by Cachelot
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To: Nick Danger
"These are not the characteristics of a culture that is dominated by men."
With the exception of that last point about Arabs passively "expecting" success (remember that Saudi prince who trained for the Olympic ski jump team by meditating in a cave?), the article could have been describing eastern Asian culture, which puts a severe emphasis on the concept of "face."  Many of those cultures (but I'm mainly thinking Chinese, since I've lived in Taiwan) appear to be dominated by the men, but in the traditional Chinese home, the tai tai (wife) is in charge of all of the money and has the final word on family business decisions.  Child rearing in the Arab world, as in Asia, appears to be dominated by women also.  You just don't see Arab men having anything to do with children - not even during meals -  until the children are old enough to be of use as warriors or laborers.  But what jumped out at me when I scanned the article was this:
"The idea that problems can be solved by Arab individuals themselves, and that the citizen must actually participate in solving their own society’s problems, is an idea that is incomprehensible to significant portions of the Arab population."
To me, that's a textbook description of a matriarchal society.  In the West, it's a dead-on description of feminism.  The brief excerpt from the book would lead one to believe that the kids -  yes, even the boys - are socialized by women before being turned out to society.  The weird reports of Bin Laden's ongoing contact with his mother might provide some insight into this phenomenon, if we knew what they talked about.

Interesting food for thought when you relate it to Western culture - thinking about the American "daycare center" in terms of the Arabian harem, where women take charge of molding the children in the complete absence of men.  This is a brand  new development in the West.  All I've been taught about Western civilization has told me that almost all of our significant advances were directly related to the fact that boys were socialized by men (I'm pretty sure that this is what distinguishes patriarchy from matriarchy).  It's possible that radical Islam culture isn't encroaching on the West, but that the West is slipping backwards to meet it.


93 posted on 11/30/2001 6:56:51 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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