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To: barf; Rokke; SBeck; Criminal Number 18F; Silly; Non-Sequitur; a6intruder
"A witness to the actual impact stated that the object made a hard turn, followed a zigzag course before striking the B747."

You earlier alleged that a witness saw the fiery streak trail of your alleged U.S. Navy hybrid SM-2 missile with dual mode homing missile make a sharp turn course correction just before it intercepted TWA 800 at 13,800 feet at 8:31:12. When asked to name the witness and provide the readers with the reference source URL for the report you were supposedly relying on, you couldn't do either.

___________________________________________

"[Richard] GOSS: (On Bell show): It was the typical look of a firework going up.... As it reached its peak, it sort of leveled out, and the strangest part was it took a sharp veer left, and it was horizontal. It moved horizontally that way. It was only a second or two later that I saw a massive explosion in the sky."

"Reconciliation [of Meyer's report] with Eyewitness Goss's report. At any rate that's really all I am here to tell you. I saw a streak of light cross the sky and initially I wasn't certain that it was a missile and I'll tell you why. In my experience in Vietnam when you saw a missile in flight it had an erratic flight path. The guidance system was always correcting.

Another strange thing - I saw something moving from my left-center to my left. I talked to a number of people whom I know in the community who said yea we saw the missile go up from the water - we saw it go up from the horizon and turn West.

Well I was looking to the South West and that meant that they saw something which would have gone from my left across going from my left to my right. And what I saw went from my left to my farther left in a right to left direction. And the two stories didn't jive - they conflicted - and I said well look I know these people - I know they are telling me the truth - we'll just preserve what we know and when we know the whole truth the pieces will fall together.

And I think they are. Because about 7 to 8 months later I met this guy, Richard Goss. Now Richard Goss had been sitting on the deck - on the front porch of a yacht club .. farther to the west of me and he had been looking out on a heading of 159 magnetic and he had seen this (points to a diagram depicting what Goss had seen). 170 magnetic - 159 true.

OK. He had seen this and when he described it to me and we talked about it and we drew it - I realized what had happened. A missile is in an erratic flight path because it is always correcting except if it is in an overshoot correct. That is, if the target is at the extreme limit of the acquisition capabilities of the missile then the missile says to itself "Whoops, the target's over there - I got to make a hard turn to catch that target". So the control surfaces on the missile go full throw and they hit stops and they stay there. And as long as they stay there and they don't chatter and they don't flutter, that missile carves a smooth arc in the sky.

When I saw Richard Goss's depiction of what he had seen I knew why I hadn't seen an erratic flight path - why the arc was smooth and I knew that what I had seen was a missile. I picked it up - you see on the top here where it curves - I picked it up just about where it starts to turn.

And what you are looking at with him is the turn is not that tight but what he looked at was at an aspect that was actually heading to the South away from him so that from his point of view the turn appears tight whereas from my point of view farther to the East it was a smoother curve."

_____________________________________

In short, Meyer and Goss met, compared what they had seen and they agreed that they both saw parts of the same sequence of fiery events in the sky.

Note that Goss estimated the elapsed time between the end of the fiery streak and the explosion of the Massive Fireball at only a second or two.

Meyer's meticulous elapsed time estimates included only 3-4 seconds between the end of the fiery streak and the explosion of the Massive Fireball, informally calculated to have been approximately 2000 feet in diameter, that filled the sky between about 5500-7500 feet at appropximately 8:31:47 - thirty-five seconds AFTER the 747 started coming apart at 13,800 feet.

427 posted on 12/20/2001 4:21:18 PM PST by Asmodeus
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To: Asmodeus
bump
428 posted on 12/20/2001 7:58:22 PM PST by timestax
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To: Asmodeus
Elmer, my theory has made another turn. Something dropped away from the P3 shortly before the crash. Do you recall a retired Navy Captain Gray or something like that? He said that a missile was launched from the P3 and it collided with the B747. I now consider the possibility that the object was a supersonic Russian target drone. It should have the velocity to really mess up a B747 and should have the maneuverability that Rocky desired. Maybe the 30-kt target was not involved afterall. If it were a Russian drone we could easily understand why anyone would want to keep it a secret. At the time that this object was released from the P3, it dropped down to and appeared to level off at the altitude of the B747. Since the US was concerned about terrorists getting their hands on Russian weapons and using them on us, a strong possibility exists that a planned test could use actual Russian hardware in a test. This could be a connection with terrorism but only by intent to test the effects of terrorism rather than be the work of terrorists. I seriously feel that this scenario deserves consideration. If a drone did release this could provide an excuse for another missile to be launched and use the drone as its target since that was what the drone was designed to be used for. This could account for some to have witnessed more than one foreign object in the mix. Any bites? Also, the portion of the time line which contained the object being dropped from the P3 was messed up with 102000 or invalid data symbols in the radar record as if a desire to mask the real facts was in effect. For some members of Congress to say that TWA800 was the result of terrorism could be true in a peripheral sense. Maybe, Bill Donaldson had this in mind when pushing terrorism. It could have had the appearance of terrorism without actually being the work of terrorists if the Navy were responsible for the screw up.
429 posted on 12/20/2001 10:51:04 PM PST by barf
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To: Asmodeus
"Yet, not one expert witness report analyst has ever agreed with Commander Donaldson's allegations about the observations of the witnesses. Not even one."

FALSE! You Sir are the most incompetent "analyst" I've even seen! Look at this....

Having followed the link to the official report of witness 649, I found it contained a letter from a real expert witness analyst from the Suffolk County Police Department (Douglas S. Matulewich, Deputy Inspector, Commanding Officer, Marine Bureau) who was employed to determine if TWA 800 witness accounts indicate that a missile was involved. Inspector Matulewich along with an agent from the Defense Intelligence Agency triangulated several witness accounts and concluded this,

Witness Expert: "I became involved in a joint effort to determine the possibility of a missile shooting down TWA flight 800. The objective was to determine if the observations of eye witnesses could be plotted on a chart to determine a location from which a missile was shot. ... The above Latitude and Longitude locations INDICATES THE CENTER OF AN AREA THAT IS STRONGLY RECOMMENDED TO BE SEARCHED AND AT A MINIMUM A ONE (1) nautical mile area should be searched for the remains of equipment that would launch a portable missile. The possibility exists that the equipment was discarded and now remains on the ocean floor." From official NTSB report.

All caps are in the original. You can read that on page 265 of 446 of the pdf file in the first link in this reply. There it is Asmodeus, an expert inspector who reviewed the witness accounts and concluded that they are enough like missile witness accounts to justify a massive search for residual missile parts. How could Asmodeus have overlooked this detail if he is the master analyst he implies and is sufficently versed in this case to render such strong opinion? It seems that Asmodeus capitalizes on what people don't know, either that or his tin-foil hat is getting too tight.

Now get this, the expert analyst Commander Donaldson found evidence of the FBI's search that was recommended based on the expert conclusion that the witness accounts support a missile strike. If the expert analysts and the FBI believed what Asmodeus believes they would never have recommended and conducted such a massive search of the ocean. It seems that Asmodeus' beliefs expose him as the real tin-foil hatter.

439 posted on 12/24/2001 10:52:02 PM PST by VectoRama
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