Remember that - "THE THREE MOST CRITICAL WITNESSES".
Witness Meyer did not and could not have seen a "shootdown" of the 747 at 13,800 feet at 8:31:12 only 3-4 seconds before he saw the Massive Fireball explosion [informally estimated at 2000 feet in diameter] fill the sky between about 5500-7500 feet at approximately 8:31:47.
SOURCE
Meyer has been presented by the infoil hatters as an unflappable witness because of his air combat experience.
[quote] From: eb4
To: fmeyer8775@aol.com
Date: 05/12/98 14:48:16
Subject: TWA Flight 800
Frederick C. Meyer, Major, New York Air National Guard (ret.)
William Donaldson, Commander, US Navy (ret.) contends that you observed a missile shootdown of TWA Flight 800 and has made available a copy of your presentation to the Grenada Forum of your observations http://members.aol.com/bardonia/meyer.htm
In that presentation, it appears that you very carefully and precisely described the sequence of events that you observed along with a similarly careful and precise estimate of the elapsed time between the events that you saw, including a total of 3 to 4 seconds between what appeared to you to be a "flak" explosion and the eruption of the Massive Fireball.
The altitude at which the Initiating Event took place that decapitated TWA Flight 800 was 13,700 feet. Private pilot Sven Faret and his passenger, Ken Wendell, prepared a similarly detailed report of what they saw of the disaster which can be reviewed in its entirety by clicking on http://www.webexpert.net/rosedale/twacasefile/aviator.html and it will be noted that they flew over to the smoke could left by the Massive Fireball and stated that the top of it was at 7700 feet and the middle at 7500 feet, from which it seems reasonable to conclude the Massive Fireball erupted at about 7500 feet or less.
The obvious question: How could you have seen a "flak" shootdown of the 747 at 13,700 feet only 3 to 4 seconds before you saw the Massive Fireball erupt at 7500 feet?
Thank you in advance for your clarification.
Elmer Barr
[end quote]
[quote]
From: FMeyer8775 Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:27:07 EDT
To: eb4@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: TWA Flight 800
Whoever you are ; since you do not extend to me the courtesy of identifying yourself: The answer to your question: I don't know .
There are some obvious possibilities;
1. My estimate of time is off -perhaps because my heartrate was accellerated by adrenalin. Upon a recap with my crewmates we all estimated the time it took for the fireball to fall at approx. 10 seconds. And yet our perception was that it fell slowly. Our time estimates are probably erroneous. But - we tell what we saw and estimated;let the experts sort it out.
2 You're probably talking about Sven ,who flew over about 5-10 minutes later after traveling east and turning back. I believe his testimony,having heard it from him and discussed it with him. It's different from mine but that will always happen when witnesses are questioned. There are good reasons for it. The reasons do not diminish the testimony. While Sven was approaching, the smoke (having weight and density) was descending . How much? I don't know. But possibly 1,000ft.or more.
3. Where was Sven's altimeter set and when? What is his altimeter error at 7,000 ft? This could account for a few hundred feet + or -. (The) tendency among the amateur investigators on the internet is to expect the pieces of the puzzle to fit like one you buy at the store. They don't. They never do. But that does not mean that the witnesses are wrong; it means that each perception must be analyzed from the point of observation,and time and physics applied. Over 500 witnesses saw the missile go up and explode. The F.B.I. has picked 244 interviews to save in case they have to debunk the testimony. The ones the F.B.I. saved are people with histories of dimentia,alcoholism,eye defects, uncertainty etc. The unassailable witnesses will be ignored.
What we know as certainty at this point is as follows:
1. Two missiles were launched from two separate positions south of the barrier island in the ocean. Both missiles struck the aircraft. Analysis of the wreckage and debris fields by experts not employed by the U.S. govt. reveal that the a/c was immediately subject to a lateral G force of approx. 60 Gs. This probably broke the necks of all aboard instantly(thanks be to God) The nose and tail and wing tips then all came off in rapid succession. The fuselage went into a flat spin,rapidly decelerating and plunging to the sea. The C.I.A. "cartoon" is laughable. Ask any physicist.
2. A large surface target which had been loitering offshore almost under the projected flight path of TWA800 suddenly accelerated to 30 kts and headed due south , away from the scene in violation of international law. Although not specifically identified with this target, Military vessels were seen off shore by credible witnesses. The FBI arrested a TWA employee who had taken a picture of the seat chart last year and another picture of what was represented by the N.T.S.B. to be the same seat chart last month, and called to their attention the discrepancies between the two photos. The chart was changed to hide the fact that tail section seats were found in the westernmost debris field, indicating that the tail was opened in the initial explosion.
Whoever you are , be aware that the F.B.I. and the N.T.S.B. have repudiated their respective oaths to support the Constitution of the United States. We are way beyond partisan politics. This is Treason.
[end quote]
Source
Witness Dwight Brumley:
[quote]
1. WHAT WAS THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS?
The first thing was noticing what I thought was a private plane, it turned out to be a P3, going under the US-Air Flight, and then, oh, I don't know maybe 20 to 30 seconds later, if even that long, a few moments later I noticed the flare-like object appearing to rise off of my right side looking down, probably underneath the wing, and then rising, peaking over, pitching over, and then the first explosion, and then, oh maybe I don't know, one to two seconds later, the small explosion became much larger explosion and started to elongate as it started heading downward. And then I followed it as long as I could and then the right wing cut off my field of view. So I never actually saw the explosion, you know, whatever the flames were a part of, I never actually saw them hit the water.
2. WHAT WAS THE TIMING OF EVENTS? HOW LONG DID THE MISSILE FLY, ETC.
Oh I'm guessing, seven to ten seconds.
3. WHAT COLOR WAS THE SMOKE TRAIL?
I didn't see a smoke trail. It was just a very, very bright point of light, you know when you see an emergency flare struck. It's pulsating, but there's a core of light that doesn't change, and then there's that, almost like a hal-, I don't want to say a halo, but the corona around it that you can detect that it's, you know, burning very, very brightly.
[end quote]
Source
Note that witness Brumley guesstimates his observations of the fiery events totaled about "7 to 10 seconds" from when he first observed the fiery streak [the "flare like object"] and it then became "the first explosion" and watched it disappear under the airliner he was riding in until the Massive Fireball explosion emerged from under his plane "one or two seconds later" at which point his 7-10 seconds of observations of fiery events ended. Keep in mind that the tinfoil hatters allege the fiery streak was the exhaust trail of a missile that intercepted TWA 800 at 13,800 feet at 8:31:12. Yet, according to Brumley, the "missile" alleged by the tinfoil hatters was still zipping along until only moments before the Massive Fireball explosion [informally estimated to be 2000 feet in diameter] filled the sky between about 5500-7500 feet at approximately 8:31:47.
Witness Brumley is also quoted by AP reporter G. Stephen Bierman Jr. as follows:
''I could not positively say that what I saw was a missile. What I saw was a very bright flame of light moving parallel to my aircraft."
Source
In short, Dwight Brumley did not and could not have seen a "shootdown" of TWA 800 at 13,800 feet at 8:31:12 only one or two seconds before he saw the informally estimated 2000 feet in diameter Massive Fireball fill the sky with flames between about 5500-7500 feet at approximately 8:31:47.
Just as witness Meyer did not and could not have seen a "shootdown" of the 747 at 13,800 feet at 8:31:12 only 3-4 seconds before he saw the Massive Fireball explosion fill the sky with flames between about 5500-7500 feet at approximately 8:31:47.
Jack Cashill's notion that James Kallstrom engaged in a "coverup" of a missile shootdown of Flight 800 is also in irreconcilable conflict with the facts. Kallstrom made the unprofessional and just plain stupid decision at the outset to elbow aside the NTSB Witness Groups and assign FBI agents to conduct hit-run 302 form witness interviews lasting only a few minutes with a list of questions zeroing in on the missile shootdown possibility raised by the initial reports by wintesses to the police and Coast Guard of the fiery streak immediately preceding the Massive Fireball explosion. The FBI agents weren't even dispatched to conduct thorough and complete interviews. They were looking for the information necessary to pinpoint a missile launch point.
There is a sequential timeline in all events. Kallstrom should have known within hours - no more than a day or two - about the satellite sighting of the Massive Fireball explosion "about a mile above the surface" and that the destination of the fiery streak was that Massive Fireball explosion. Even if he is given the benefit of a doubt about that, the destination of the fiery streak should have been obvious to him from the witness reports flooding in to local police and the Coast Guard from the outset, dramatizing the importance of promptly determining the approximate altitude and time of that Massive Fireball explosion - and whether it was at or in the immediate vicinity of where the 747 was when it began coming apart at 13,800 feet at 8:31:12.
As it turned out, the Massive Fireball explosion [informally estimated at approximately 2000 feet in diameter] filled the sky between about 5500-7500 feet at approximately 8:31:47, thirty-five seconds AFTER the initiating event doomed the airliner and all aboard. It's all spelled out and documented in considerable detail here.
Kallstrom had his neck bowed from the outset that Flight 800 WAS the victim of a missile shootdown. When confronted with reports from his own experts that no physical evidence of a missile or bomb was being found in the wreckage, his lieutenants badgered and harrassed then FBI Chief Metallurgist William Tobin with the mantra that "260 some witnesses can't be wrong".
GRASSLEY: Did you ever hear the expression that two hundred and sixty some witnesses can't be wrong? Referring to various eyewitness accounts which supported the bomb and missile theory.
TOBIN: Yes, I did.
GRASSLEY: Under what circumstances did you hear that position? And how did you respond to those comments?
TOBIN: That was the continual argument advanced when I continued to try to use the cardboard box analogy. That basically NTSB's and my position in a material scientist position is that the box fragments --if you have a bomb in a box, the box fragments will tell the story. And my position was, I don't care how many witnesses say what, the box, the container has to tell the story. And I was continually told that two hundred and sixty some witnesses can't be wrong.
Source
After wasting the better part of $40,000,000 in his extensive efforts to prove the 747 was a "shootdown" victim - or, as time progressed, at least the victim of a bomb - and coming up completely empty handed, Kallstrom had a major PR problem - how to explain the fiery streak. It wouldn't have been necessary if physical evidence of a bomb had been found but his unprofessional rampage had failed to turn up ANY evidence of a criminal cause for the disaster and had blown away all that money. So he took the best of his agents' horrendously incomplete and inept 302 form "missile witness" reports to the CIA which led to the untenable "explanation" videos and graphics - which the tinfoil hatters soon followed with their own untenable "explanation" video's and graphics. What made them ALL untenable was that there were no witnesses - zero, NONE - to anything unusual in the sky anywhere near where or when the Initiating Event took place at 13,800 feet at 8:31:12.
All that was because none of them determined the facts necessary to prepare a sequential timeline of the major events. Had they done so, it would have soon been obvious that they were all trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Which brings us to witness Wire. One and all are invited to try to fit his report(s) into the following approximate sequential timeline of the major events - or any sequential timeline they are able to conjure up that they think it might fit into without being in glaringly obvious irreconcilable conflict with other known facts.
The timeline and location of the major events of the disaster was approximately as follows:
8:31:11 Intact and climbing 747 approaches 13,800 feet.
8:31:12 Initiating Event at 13,800 feet followed immediately by the commencement of the decapitation process.
8:31:47 explosion of Massive Fireball at 5500-7500 feet. The eyewitnesses contend that the Massive Fireball explosion was immediately preceded by the fiery streak.
8:31:55-8:31:57 splashdown of the Massive Fireball flames.
Source
Incidentally, barf hasn't tried to make his unique but still vague sled towing P-3 U.S. Navy accidental shootdown scenario fit compatibly in that or any other sequential timeline todate either. Can he? If he can't, he'll substitute his usual laniru type of response - or pretend he's ignoring the issue.