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To: Libertarianize the GOP
May this be no disrespect, but I think the prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled a long time ago, with the collapse of the Roman Empire--which the author of Revelation appears to have intended in much of the symbolism in this astonishing book.

Here, of course, I am assuming that the end of the world--in (latinized) Greek, he ge meant the end of the oppressive social system which was eagerly anticipated by anti-establishment Jews of the time, and not the end of planet earth.

There were plenty of "signs" of this in advance of the final sack of Rome by the Germans around 409 A.D. And this was followed by a Christian civilization in much of Europe earth which lasted for a thousand years.

I realize that this is a highly unorthodox way of looking at this matter, and not a strictly religious one. But I wanted to share it anyway, in case it might be of interest to anyone.

6 posted on 11/26/2001 10:40:59 PM PST by codeword
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To: codeword
That's called the preterist position and it falls short of making sense out of the entire book of Revelation. I have studied that position thoroughly and found it wanting much. In order to make sense of it it has to be studied along with all the so-called "major" and "minor" prophets, especially Daniel and Zechariah. And that requires a great amount of time and desire to really want to get at the bottom of it all, and then, even still, it is too much for the human mind to fully understand and comprehend.
7 posted on 11/26/2001 10:55:20 PM PST by Ymani Cricket
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To: codeword
That's an interesting take. I'd actually like to find out more about this. If you're still there, do you have any links to good info resources on this?

Thanks in advance.

13 posted on 11/26/2001 11:20:18 PM PST by mxbluto
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To: codeword
I agree that revelations refers to the Roman empire, but so much biblical prophecy seems to have a relation to events at the time it was written and also relevance to future events. When I wake up and have some time to think I may contribute a few ideas to the discussion.
17 posted on 11/27/2001 5:13:57 AM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: codeword
To believe as you do one must disbelieve the Bible. Forget The Book of The Revelation. (The Apocalypse) Just look at what The Messiah says in Mathew.

[4] Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.

[5] For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

[6] You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

[7] Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

[8] All these are the beginning of birth pains.

[9] "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

[10] At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

[11] and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

[12] Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,

[13] but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

[14] And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

[15] "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--

[16] then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

[17] Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house.

[18] Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak.

[19] How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!

[20] Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

[21] For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.

[22] If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. Matthew 24:4-22

If you toss The Messiah's words into the trash in these verses then you have trashed the whole Bible. Forget it. It's all meaningless. There is no God. We are simply biological machines ... the product of an accident we will never understand. The universe has no first cause and nothing means anything.

28 posted on 11/27/2001 8:13:42 AM PST by mercy
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To: codeword
I have always thought that these prophecies will probably occur when they are no longer belived in. When that happens, God only knows.
44 posted on 11/27/2001 8:54:08 AM PST by ohioman
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To: codeword
this is a highly unorthodox way of looking at this matter

In talking with a Catholic scholar, I have become convinced the Book of Daniel describes past events, in particular Alexander's conquest.

61 posted on 11/27/2001 9:33:30 AM PST by RightWhale
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To: codeword
I realize that this is a highly unorthodox way of looking at this matter, and not a strictly religious one. But I wanted to share it anyway, in case it might be of interest to anyone.

Your viewpoint is far more "orthodox" than most of the end-time rapture nonsense...

112 posted on 11/27/2001 11:48:28 AM PST by Galatians513
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