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More haste, less speed - AND - IDF booby trap caused deaths of 5 Gaza schoolboys
The Jerusalem Post ^ | November, 27 2001 - AND - November, 25 2001 | Shlomo Gazit - AND - By Arieh O'Sullivan and Margot Dudkevitch

Posted on 11/26/2001 5:27:46 PM PST by Big_Time_Clymer's_Anonymous

The Jerusalem Post

More haste, less speed


Shlomo Gazit November, 27 2001

(November 27) - The news on the radio last Thursday morning began, justifiably, with the story of the five Palestinian children, all members of the same family, who were killed in an explosion in Khan Yunis in the Gaza Strip. The announcement explained that "the tragedy occurred when the group of children played with an unexploded shell from an IDF tank."

After a very short time we heard the Palestinian version of the incident: "IDF forces planted a booby-trap that was planned to hit Palestinians who regularly fire mortar shells from the place. The booby-trap was activated by remote control when the children were passing by." In reply to questions, the IDF spokesman refused to deny or confirm this version and merely stated: "Firing did not take place in the area. The IDF is checking the incident."

I don't know the truth about this event, and it is possible that by the time this article appears the results of the IDF enquiry will be published (assuming that it will be possible to perform a check with a reasonable level of reliability without the cooperation of the Palestinian Authority). However, even if it is established beyond doubt that the tragedy occurred while the children were playing with an unexploded round, it will be impossible to prevent long term damage.

The damage in this case is not confined to the specific tragedy of the deaths of five innocent children in Khan Yunis. The damage refers to the reliability of IDF reports.

Someone reported the first version to Kol Israel, according to which the children were killed by the explosion of a dud IDF tank shell. I assume that the intention was good - to claim that this was merely a tragic accident for which the IDF was not responsible and thus pre-empt the report that would come from Palestinian sources. However, within a few hours a contradictory Palestinian version was published and the IDF spokesman was not ready to substantiate the initial explanation of the incident. We now don't know who and what to believe.

In the past there was absolute trust in the IDF. This trust was given first and foremost by the Israeli people, who accepted unreservedly every announcement of the IDF spokesman. A nation that has been undergoing a continuous military confrontation for more than 50 years must receive precise, full and reliable reports even if they are not pleasant to hear. This trust is the most important element of national morale, an essential condition for the average Israeli to serve in the IDF and for parents to give their children with full confidence to the military commanders. Unfortun-ately, the tragedy in Khan Yunis is not an exceptional case - we are in the middle of a continuous process that has been intensifying gradually since the period of the first intifada, or perhaps even earlier, of erosion of the reliability of reports issued by the military establishment.

The second form of damage was caused to the Arab-Palestinian attitude to Israeli reports. Even Arab public opinion distinguished in the past between the IDF announcements and the imaginative stories originating from their own sources. Those who really wanted to know what had happened used to rely on the Israeli reports alone.

This is no longer the situation. I am afraid that the average Arab places greater trust in the reports coming from his side or, at best, there is a lack of faith in the reports coming from both sides. Therefore, there are far more important ramifications that what is involved in a specific incident. This lack of trust refers to Israel in general, to all elements of the bilateral conflict, and particularly to Israel's diplomatic stance.

The third form of damage, of course, is to the media campaign to influence world public opinion. I don't think that neutral public opinion accepts the Palestinian version as being more reliable. It is enough that they don't accept the Israeli announcements without reservation.

There are apparently two explanations of what happened in this and other similar cases - the first was the strong desire to pre-empt the report that would come from Palestinian sources. In media war, paramount importance is attached to presenting the first version on the screen, but this only works if this version is reliable.

The second explanation, of which we have considerable experience, is the difficulty in obtaining full, accurate and reliable reporting from the field. In virtually no case was the initial report of the incident accurate, even if no attempt was made to blur or conceal unpleasant facts. It is very difficult to give full confidence to the initial report and it is necessary to wait until a thorough investigation has been made.

We encounter inaccuracies in almost every terrorist attack against Israelis. We have been following, for almost a year, the stories of the log in the Or Commission of Inquiry, and it is naturally impossible to give full trust to the initial version from Khan Yunis. However, the conclusion to be drawn is clear - it would be better for Israel and the IDF if their version were first, only if this does not harm its reliability.

IDF officers, remember: more haste, less speed!


The Jerusalem Post

IDF booby trap caused deaths of 5 Gaza schoolboys


By Arieh O'Sullivan and Margot Dudkevitch November, 25 2001

TEL AVIV (November 25) - IDF forces laid the bomb that accidentally killed five Palestinian schoolboys in Khan Yunis on Thursday, the army announced last night.

The IDF had remained silent over the cause of Thursday's deadly explosion except to say no tank had fired a shell in that sector. OC Gaza Strip Brig.-Gen. Yisrael Ziv is participating in the inquiry, but he himself may have been behind the decision to lay the bomb.

It was the first public announcement by the IDF since the deaths of Muhammad al-Astal, 14, his brother Akram, six, and their cousins Omer, 14, Annis, 10, and Ahmed, 10. The five children were walking to the nearby UN elementary school on Thursday morning when one of them apparently kicked the device, triggering the explosion.

The five were buried in Khan Yunis on Friday in a funeral attended by more than 10,000 people.

The bodies, wrapped in Palestinian flags and strapped to stretchers, were carried side-by-side in a procession as gunmen fired in the air. Children carried pictures of their dead classmates. Masked men wrote slogans on the walls of a mosque, threatening Israel with revenge.

Idress al-Astal, father of two of the dead children, said no investigation could bring back his sons. "God will grant me revenge," he said, breaking down in tears.

Military sources said that an IDF special force, acting on instructions from senior commanders, slipped into area A and laid the bomb. The idea was to set a trap in an area from which Palestinian gunmen had been repeatedly attacking Jewish settlements and IDF outposts.

It was a classic anti-guerrilla tactic, but it failed to take into account the possibility that others - such as children on their way to school - would venture into the area with tragic results.

"From the moment of the explosion an operational inquiry started examining the incident," an IDF statement said. "From an initial inquiry by OC Southern Command Maj.-Gen. Doron Almog, the possibility arises that the children were killed as a result of playing with a bomb which an IDF force had set in a sandbagged position that had been used to shoot at and attack our forces." It noted that the position was not inside any urban area, but in an open field.

"The inquiry is not yet completed, and when it is all the necessary operational lessons will be drawn," the statement said.

"The IDF Spokesman stresses that the action in the open area was intended against terrorists and it expresses its regret for the death of the children," the statement said.

Both Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer and the IDF issued official statements expressing regret for the boys' deaths.

While Ben-Eliezer was sorry for the "human tragedy that took the lives of innocents," he stopped short of taking actual responsibility for the explosive device. The defense minister said the explosion was being investigated.

Israel Radio quoted a high-ranking officer as saying the order to investigate the affair was a "grave mistake."

Meanwhile, the Palestinian Police chief in Gaza, Brig. Gen. Abdel Razek Majaida, said the boys appeared to have been killed by a bomb planted by Israeli forces, who had been seen operating in the area the night before the blast.

"Shrapnel we collected from the area shows that the explosion was caused by an explosive device," he said.

"Our investigation continues, but it looks as if the device was booby-trapped and when one of the children kicked it, it exploded."

"We urge an international investigative committee to look into the murder of innocent children and to determine Israel's responsibility," he added.

On Friday Transportation Minister Ephraim Sneh called on the army to launch a proper and fair inquiry of the incident, declaring the army's integrity is at stake.

"Someone may have to be punished if he acted improperly or acted with negligence," Sneh told Israel Radio, but added that the context of the tragedy is that "there is a terrorism and guerrilla war being waged against Israel."

Opposition leader Yossi Sarid called on the army to carry out an investigation and submit its findings this week to determine what was the cause and if action needs to be taken if misconduct is found. Speaking on Channel 1, he said: "Someone high up in the army will have to pay with his head. Children killed, whether on our side or theirs, is not something to be ignored."

Minister without Portfolio Dan Meridor took a similar view.

"If we really made a mistake, I hope we'll tell the truth about it," he said. "The truth is better than any excuse."

US State Department spokesman Philip Reeker said of the incident: "The United States deeply regrets the tragic accidental deaths of five Palestinian children... when they came in contact with unexploded ordnance. It was a terrible tragedy."

"We understand that the Israeli army has begun an investigation into the circumstances of these deaths and we expect that investigation will thoroughly determine what happened. This incident... is a strong reminder of why both sides should do all they can to end the violence, reduce tensions, and resume negotiations," he added.

(Janine Zacharia and news agencies contributed to this report.)




TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs
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To: Big_Time_Clymer's_Anonymous
Anyway, it's nice to see that the boy's "family" has been elevated from "clan" to "family" status.
Friday, November 23, 2001 Kislev 8, 5762 Israel Time: 07:13 (GMT+2)

Ha'aritz

Five Palestinian children killed by IDF ordnance

By Amos Harel and Daniel Sobelman

A Palestinian inspecting blood stains near the place where a group of Palestinian cousins were killed when one of them kicked an unexploded Israeli tank shell as they walked to school in Khan Yunis yesterday. (Photo: Reuters)

Five Palestinian children, all under the age of 14 and all belonging to the same clan, were killed yesterday morning on their way to school, apparently by an unexploded Israeli tank shell or land mine.

21 posted on 11/26/2001 8:23:22 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: Big_Time_Clymer's_Anonymous
Hmmm, multiple posts about a mine set in a mortar firing post. Dumb mistake, don't the Jews know the Pali's let their kids play in firing zones? Some IDF idiot is gonna get his head handed to him by his boss.

Hmmm, no posts about the 20 or so mortars fired into Jewish housing and defensive positions that killed a Jew. No mentions about the suicide bomber, the car bomb, the pipe bomb in the orthodox Jewish area, the machine gun firings against southern Jerusalem housing. In fact I think I have read about 8 or 9 posts about this one explosion and about none about the half a dozen explosions that have gone on since then, all in Jewish cities or against Jewish targets. One was even a three mine commando strike against the Chief of Staff of the Israeli Cabinet.

Is it any coincidence that any Anti-Jewish news articles are posted, posted, and posted again, and Anti-Palestinian news is overlooked?

Naaaaahhhhh...

22 posted on 11/26/2001 8:32:48 PM PST by American in Israel
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To: Phil V.
Well, oh so easy to offend one, if you knew anything about the Middle East, you would know that families here live in clans. The term clan is more accurate, but translates poorly into American English. Cousins, aunts, uncles etc all live in the same housing complex. When the family expands due to births and weddings a new room or apartment is built on. It actually is kind of neat, tends to make for very tight families. As one of the kids was a cousin, that lived in the same structure, the term clan is far more accurate.

I feel for the family, the loss is all the worse because of this. To make yourself feel better, go read some of the textbooks they were taking to "school". You know, the ones that teach that they must spill their blood for the liberation of Palestine, and how they will all get Virgins and Feasts besides rivers of honey for having done what they were raised to do. Die as propaganda points. Personally I think raising my son to not play in the front lines or with explosive devices like the Jews do is smarter, but to each his own.

23 posted on 11/26/2001 8:43:12 PM PST by American in Israel
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To: American in Israel
To make yourself feel better, go read some of the textbooks they were taking to "school".

Are you suggesting that schoolboys choose their textbooks? I don't doubt these boys were being propagandized by the PA. That only makes them doubly victims, and in no way mitigates the criminal indifference to human life of those IDF elements who placed a deadly hazard in their way.

24 posted on 11/26/2001 8:50:32 PM PST by Romulus
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To: Romulus
No, just read this thread. Palestinian textbooks omit Israel. They are indeed double victims.
25 posted on 11/26/2001 10:21:19 PM PST by American in Israel
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To: Romulus
I actualy think the trap was placed in the mortar pit to kill mortarmen. But if you want horrible indifference to human life try pizza parlors or block parties when the Trade Towers fell. There is a whole lot of difference between accidental deaths and targeting birthday parties or celebrations over mass murder. You know they held block parties when the Disco bomb killed those girls don't you?
26 posted on 11/26/2001 10:33:39 PM PST by American in Israel
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: Romulus
Here is something you are unwilling to confront because it ruins your entire position.

Upon hearing of the IDF bomb that killed those kids, there was an uproar in the government and within Israeli society.

An investigation was launched. Newspapers critisized. Here is the big part: Not a single Israeli cheered, danced in the street, handed out candy, celebrated... The government mourned the loss, gave its condolences, and not a single official praised their deaths. Not a single religious leader praised their deaths.

Not take everything i've just said, and take the complete opposite on every SINGLE sentence. Now you've got the Palestinian (civilian, government, religious) reaction to the deaths of dozens of Israeli children.

Why is this?

Btw, not that I don't think this is a tragedy, but just so you know, these Palestinian 'clans' ("families) sometimes number many thousands of people. When the Palestinians killed 5 members of the same Israeli family in the Pizza Parlor (family of 8 i believe) they praised the murder.

28 posted on 11/26/2001 10:44:30 PM PST by IcommGen
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To: Big_Time_Clymer's_Anonymous
The IDF Spokesman stresses that the action in the open area was intended against terrorists and it expresses its regret for the death of the children," the statement said.

There are still folks at FR who want to pretend that Israel did not plant a booby trap where children frequented.

29 posted on 11/26/2001 10:45:55 PM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
There are still folks on FR that don't want to admit that the Palestinians intentionally fire from residential areas (including schools and churches) in order to INTENTIONAL draw fire to those places as a means of furthering their 'cause'.

There are also still folks on FR that don't want to admit that that 'cause' is the complete destruction of the Israeli state and the murder/expolsion of all its jewish inhabitants.

But don't believe me, check out the charter for yourself:

http://www.netaxs.com/~iris/plochart.htm

And Arafat's 'phased plan' for the destruction of Israel:

http://www.netaxs.com/~iris/plophase.htm

30 posted on 11/26/2001 11:55:16 PM PST by IcommGen
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: IcommGen
There are still folks on FR that don't want to admit that the Palestinians intentionally fire from residential areas

I've never seen anyone who says that. I have seen people though who have claimed that the IDF never kill children.

Or the U.S. for that matter. Then you just remember Waco, Serbia and Viet Nam and realize it's all B.S.

32 posted on 11/27/2001 12:08:59 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Pissed Off Janitor
There are still folks at FR who want to pretend that terrorists did not set up and fire Mortars where children frequented.

I thought this was a foregone conclusion.

And I have no terrorist friends but thanks for the concern.

33 posted on 11/27/2001 12:10:33 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
---There are still folks on FR that don't want to admit that the Palestinians intentionally fire from residential areas

I've never seen anyone who says that.

Cute, very cute. But then you don't get out much. I am sure you have read about it since you are on news groups. You could have figured it out from this thread alone, but like most Islamics you get suddenly very dense when it comes to inspecting your own house.

For your "information" the attacks that come almost nightly from Bet Jala are Tanziem (Arafats paid militia) setting up in the once mostly Christian town to shoot at Jerusalem. The Christians prostested to the PA about having thier homes taken over for firing posts, and the answer they got is that they would just have to pay the price for the Intifadda.

There, now you have been told. You can still say you have never "seen" anyone who told you that but...

34 posted on 11/27/2001 4:21:42 AM PST by American in Israel
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To: American in Israel
Are you still trying to claim that people don't admit that Palestinians kill Jews? Please show me a quote.
35 posted on 11/27/2001 8:34:59 AM PST by Demidog
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To: American in Israel
Is it any coincidence that any Anti-Jewish news articles are posted, posted, and posted again, and Anti-Palestinian news is overlooked?

Well, let's post, post, post away. If we feel that the finer sides of Israel are being ignored as well as the darker sides of the Palestinians under reported then post, post, post away and be part of the solution. Whiners are a problem, don't you agree?

36 posted on 11/27/2001 6:39:15 PM PST by Phil V.
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