One Nation, Slightly Divisible

Alantic Monthly -[forum]- ^ | 11/24/01 | David Brooks [Sage Stossel]

[tpaine]

"Other observers have argued that Red America and Blue America represent opposing moral systems that are bound to clash with one another as they compete to determine how America will be run. But here, too, Brooks disagrees:"

"Certainly Red and Blue America disagree strongly on some issues, such as homosexuality and abortion. But for the most part the disagreements are not large. Tolerance of other points of view on most issues seems to be the norm both for Red and for Blue America."

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Good article, but I can't quite agree on the 'tolerance' angle above. -- Very little is ever seen on FR.

[Dat]

I come to FR to get away from that preachy tolerance crap.

[RLK]

There may be cracks, but there is no chasm.

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The hell there isn't. When I want intelligent conversation and real people I'll go to red America. If I wanted Woody Allen, I'll go to Blue America.

[GeekDejure]

My regret is that the Red and Blue colors should have been reversed !!! Red for the bloody, socialist-communist, America destroying liberals . . . and Blue for the peace loving, law abiding majority of my fellow Americans !!!

[JPR_Boise_ID]

LOL ... after reading the first three replies, it looks like you're tag-line comment is right on the mark !

Thanks for the article.

[ladyinred]

I agree with you too, there is more than a little bit of difference between the red and the blue! It is like the great divide instead.
The only exception was the first few days after the WTC Pentagon attacks. For those few horrifying weeks, we were all Americans.

[tpaine]

"I come to FR to get away from that preachy tolerance crap."

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Yep. - There's plenty here that preach intolerance, fer sure. Gotta love it.

[Betty Jane]

Do you find Red America depressingly provincial?

I find Blue America depressingly provincial. There is little tolerance in the blue zone for truly religious or conservative people. It is too important to go along to get along. Blue zoners live for the approval of their neighbors and coworkers. God forbid anyone should have a contrary point of view.

[Betty Jane]

Do you find Red America depressingly provincial?

I find Blue America depressingly provincial. There is little tolerance in the blue zone for truly religious or conservative people. It is too important to go along to get along. Blue zoners live for the approval of their neighbors and coworkers. God forbid anyone should have a contrary point of view.

[Amelia]

I don't get it - I've seen studies that show that better educated, wealthier people are more likely to vote Republican. Yet this guy is saying that people in the "Blue Zone" are likely to be wealthier & better educated.

Of course, I think he left out the slums in the Blue Zone too....

[tpaine]

According to the author, red folks are tolerant, blues aren't.

In the magazine, he claims:

" You won't find much crusader zeal in Franklin County.
For one thing, people in small towns don't want to offend people whom they'll be encountering on the streets for the next fifty years. Potentialy controversial subjects are often played down. ---- snip ------ It would be simply uncivil to thrust raw disagreement in peoples faces."

I've seen this meself, as I grew up in a small town.

So maybe FR's uncivility is just due to its anonomous nature?

[tpaine]

Thank you.

[tpaine]

See #11. Ever live in a small town?

[tpaine]

They are better educated in the delights of socialism. --- And many are wealthy because of it's practice. -- In fact, most of the 'wealth' around DC is generated by the federal governments bureaucratic socialism.

[RLK]

I was raised in a midwestern community in Iowa when it was a predominently farm state. A man running a machine shop or a farm has other things to worry about than what is the concern of artsy craftsy fops in New York or California. So do his neighbors. This generates a degree of homogeniety of interest and opinion in such red areas. Their interests are determined by day to day responsibility and duties rather than social fashion.

Gloria Steinem, Woody Allen, Geralso Rivera, and many others wouldn't survive in red America. Blue America has an extensive parasitic fop subculture that supports them in ease and stupidity. That's where they congregate and vote. Capacity to produce outrage is a major industry in such places that has been taken up by the social structure. A fool can survive in the red area by virtue of attention and entertainment value. On a farm, it will get you broke and hungry within a short time.

As far as civility, I call them as I see them. I grew up in a German Pennsylvania dutch community in which euphemis was looked upon as a dangerous and insulting form of lie.

[1stMarylandRegiment]

from food to clothing, to recreation, education-levels, and life aspirations are dramatically different in Red as opposed to Blue America. In Red America people eat meatloaf, dine at Crackerbarrel, shop at Walmart, attend Church and participate in Church-related activities regularly, live near family, obtain minimal educations, hold conservative views on issues like homosexuality and abortion, and enjoy a close-knit community life. In Blue America people eat "sun-dried-tomato concoctions," wear designer clothes, get graduate degrees, enjoy ideas, compete with one another for prestige, money and recognition, and tend to be openminded about social issues such as homosexuality and abortion, and open to other cultures

I live in a Blue County - in the Midwest. The polls stayed open an extra hour so the unregistered voters here could get to the polls and vote for Gore.

I eat meatloaf, dine at Crackerbarrel, shop at Walmart, attend Church and participate in Church-related activities regularly, live near family, but I

have a Master's degree from an Eastern University. I was born here and returned to be near my family and work in the family business. I

hold conservative views on issues like homosexuality and abortion, and enjoy a close-knit community life. I'm intolerant of people who don't share my values, and believe that if you want to come here, YOU should accept US. I

am a stockbroker now that my father lost the business, wear department store suits to work and Land's End khakis on weekends. I

compete vigorously for money and prestige, but tithe, and lend my expertise and name recognition to the local High School (yes, a state school, but not bad as they go).

My antecedents came to what is now Silver Spring, MD (near where the writer lives) in the 17th Century and later fought along side General Washington (see Screen name). I carry a copy of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence in my jacket or slacks pocket because I like the ideas in them.

Where do I fit in this divided country?

We're all Americans, and that's the beauty of it.

[x]

The Brooks article Stossel's writing about isn't on the web yet, but may become available there later. It's worth looking at. According to Brooks people in the Red zone take life more as it is and live according to religious and traditional ways, while those in the Blue zone are desperately trying to be "individuals," who have broken with such institutions.

Are we one country? Another way of asking the question is "Are we more divided now than we were in the past? Are we less one country than we were in 1860 or 1896 or 1932 or 1968? If we survived those crises as a country (and some might say we didn't survive 1860 as one country), what divides us now that can't be overcome? Today, we expect to be all one thing or all another. The prarie farmer and Wall Street Banker of 1896 or 1932 probably hated each other, but recognized that they were part of one and the same nation in which both of them had a place. The Northern mechanic or merchant and Southern planter or farmer of 1860 more likely than not saw themselves as members of two different nations.

It does seem like today's divisions run higher than the usual city vs. country rivalry, but I don't think we're at anything near the degree of hostility felt in 1860. Especially since 9/11. Patriotism has a new, almost unprecedented popularity in the Blue zone, and, rightly or wrongly, "fundamentalism" has become a dirty word in much of the Red Zone.

In times of peace and prosperity, people take internal political divisions for great, unbridgeable chasms. When there are external enemies and real problems, people put these divisions aside and come together more. It's an encouraging sign that gun control seems to have fallen off the national agenda. The day will come when the crisis is resolved and we turn our energies against each other once again, but I don't long for that day.

[dandelion]

You need to get out more - come over to the "Muslim Culture" and "Immigrant Culture" threads that have been posted recently to see some real discussion and displays/battles regarding tolerance here at FreeRepublic. I bet you'll see far more diversity of thought and maturity of discussion than you will at DU...

[tpaine]

As far as civility, I call them as I see them. I grew up in a German Pennsylvania dutch community in which euphemis was looked upon as a dangerous and insulting form of lie.

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Hmmmmm, My german relatives in Wabasha County MN. valued euphemism as social grease, and a witty man that could make his point without insulting others was highly respected.
Different strokes I guess.

[tpaine]

In a roundabout way, you seem to agree with the author, but don't like his ideas on why that's so.

That make any sense?