'HARRY' CATCHES HELL FROM CHRISTIANS

New York Post ^ | 11/24/01 | TODD VENEZIA

[nopardons]

That's one thing that's WRONG / DANGEROUS with looking up something on the net. There are MANY sites, that have erronous / utterly false info, and people believe it. If you need refferences for Circe, or any other ancient name / myth, I can supply a book list. : - )

Circe was NEVER the " goddess of truth " in ANY ancient culture !

Oh, and the PICTS , who are the ancesters of most Scots, weren't Celts. Ergo, saying that K = ch in the Celtic language, doesn't work.

[Ward Smythe]

God has spoken on how he sees witchcraft,so to seek it inspite of his word is rebellion.. a double header according to that scripture!

But reading about something is not necessarily seeking it.

By your logic, if I read about a murder, then I am, therefore a murderer. And, if you've read this post, it makes you one too.

And since witchcraft seems to be a dominant topic of the Harry Potter threads...

[RnMomof7]

But reading about something is not necessarily seeking it.

By your logic, if I read about a murder, then I am, therefore a murderer. And, if you've read this post, it makes you one too.

And since witchcraft seems to be a dominant topic of the Harry Potter threads...

Double speak...

If you know something is an abomination to God, and you know that He said that it is worthy of hells fire..and you take money you have earned,drive to a store,walk into the store..and put down that money ....the walk back to your car..drive home....open the book and read it to your children it was no accident,it is rebellion against God

You made a conscience decision.

God has placed your children in your care..scripture is clear that you are to be their primary teacher..and what do you decide to teach them?

You can seek to justify it ..but it isn't me that has condemned witchcraft it is God..

Dad this is your responsibility

Deuteronomy
6:6And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
67And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 8And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

[Outlaw76]

Actualy the celtic 'ch' does have a whole lot to do with it. Not only the Picti, but the Scotti, Scotts-Irish, Saxons, and Anglo's are all the ancestors fo the Scotts of today. The Pictish likely the least of those. The Picti were a small dark race you see. More like the Spaniards of today then the average Scott of today. The heritage of the Scottsman would be incredibly vast if they had been allowed to maintian a larger portion of there lore. Unfortunately people who thought they knew everything-mainly the will of God-destroyed as much of it as possible and represed the rest fiercely. So much history has been lost through ignorant people who think they know what is best for others...

[Ward Smythe]

Dad this is your responsibility

And I take it seriously. Evidenced by the fact that I'm off to meet the family at church.

And, by the way, my son is cast as a "dragon" in a scene in our Christmas production. I hope that doesn't keep you up nights.

You have to call what I said "double speak" because you obviously couldn't answer it. Your far more obsessed about Harry Potter than I and my family could ever be. You really think you're convincing people - Christians especially - not to read Harry Potter.

But it's like telling your kids on Thankgiving Day not to look in the hall closet (because you've hidden their presents there). Turn your head, that's the first place they're going to go. The more you rant about the evils of Harry Potter the more people are going to go out and read/see it just to find out...

[discostu]

But of course, you should only put this much effort into word rooting to kill time, and never to prove a real point. Since it almost always gets to Latin eventually, and the Romans had a very odd mind set that pretty much viewed everything as how it related to the military and power you can get some wierd ideas going. For instance:
Host is the Latin word for enemy
Impediment comes from the Latin impedus which literally translates as "in front of (your) feet ", but the word itself was used to mean luggage or supplies.

As for religion and that word's relationship to bondage, from a militaristic standpoint it's quite clear. Disregarding for the moment all the stuff about salvation and souls and so forth what is a religion? Well it's a collection of rules and moral guideline. Rules that are not to be broken, rules that keep you from doing stuff, rules that "bind" your actions (if you will). Of course this is held up by the fact that the word "law" stems from "legal" which itself comes from that same bondage root. To a freewheeling always conquering military society all rules, whether from man or god (lowercase because I'm using the concept of all gods not The Entity, I try so hard not to offend) are restricting and binding.

As for Circe and church I'm not buying it. Here's from the Websters site: [Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice, ultimately from Medieval Greek krikon, from Late Greek kriakon (dma), the Lord's (house), neuter of Greek kriakos, of the lord, from krios, lord. See keu- in Indo-European Roots.]
Looks like it pretty much skipped Rome. Which makes sense, church has a very British Isle fondness for consenants and a Greek love of the k-r (r-k in this instance) combo.

[Outlaw76]

Oh Wow! An English Colonial loyalist! I thought they had died out over 100 years ago. George W. would likely laugh at that statement himself... and I mean George Washington by the way...

[Outlaw76]

"Looks like it pretty much skipped Rome. Which makes sense, church has a very British Isle fondness for consenants and a Greek love of the k-r (r-k in this instance) combo."

Well thats the thing, they didn't have a fondness for r-k, so the kriakon idea realy doesn't work. Etymological scholars stopped arguing about that one a long time ago conceding that the Kriakon path was most likely incorect.

[Outlaw76]

"But of course, you should only put this much effort into word rooting to kill time, and never to prove a real point."

You have to look back through the posts a bit, but I was proving a point. Some ignorant sap tried to say that Kirk was pagan. Oddly I proved him right but also showed that it is currently applied to churches in the land he said considered it Pagan.

Since it almost always gets to Latin eventually, and the Romans had a very odd mind set that pretty much viewed everything as how it related to the military and power you can get some wierd ideas going. For instance:

Please try to remember that the christian movement as we know it today is part and parcel of what was once Rome. That Odd mind set likely controlled people like Emporor Constantine who basicaly founded the Roman Catholic Church.
Since that mindset was so prevalent it is beyond any doubt that it was also a part of the generaly psyche of the time, the same psyche that worked to interpret Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew into Latin. The same work has permutated over time into the many modern versions of the Bible. That is touchy ground to many.

[HamiltonJay]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA... well the left has their Tree Huggers, guess the right has to have its religious fundamentalists to level it out.

[discostu]

I remember those, with woodkirk. Actually the guy was just poking at him because woodkirk was insisting that Harry was some code word for Satan. I was in the middle of an arguement already and didn't feel like playing in that one.

But by the time Christianity starts taking hold in Rome the attitude of the nation is a little different. They've pretty much conquered everything worth conquering and are starting to choke to death on taxes (doesn't sound in the least bit familiar, no sir, not one bit) so the innate militarism is dieing down, but the language is already done. People don't think about the fact that when they say luggage they're actually saying "in front of my feet", kind of like how when we say bus we rarely if ever realize that we're saying an abreviation of omnibus which was the original name England gave these vehicles that were "for everyone".

Now, of course, the Catholic Church kept a lot of the rigid structure of the military society, but we really can't fault them for that. Roman structure is still around all over the place, certainly in our military which is organized in almost the exact same way the Roman's was (even down to the number of people, roughly, in each sized unit). And of course, the org chart that all of us in corporate America know and love so much is basically how Rome organized their military and a lot of other stuff, we blame it on the French because they were the first ones to draw it that way (oh and, we don't like the French, you can tell because we blame them for it, rather than giving them credit), but it's still pretty much how Rome worked, they just didn't draw that pretty.

[4mycountry]

Harry, Luke, and Jesus were born to a special fate, are recognized by others while young, performing miracals or magic, and overcome long odds and evil-doers while fulfilling there destiny.

Okay, first of all let's throw Luke outta the picture shall we?

Now, you said they- Jesus and Harry- performed miricals or magic. Well let me tell you something, Jesus did His miracals out of God's divine holiness. Harry Potter does his magic out of a book of spells. Jesus' miracles were given to Him by the Lord. Harry Potter's magic was taught to him by the Hogwart's School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Now please don't tell me that Jesus and Harry Potter are alike!

[RnMomof7]

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

2 Kings 17
17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire,
and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only

Jeremiah 14
. 14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
15 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.

Ezekiel 12
24 For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel.
25 For I am the LORD: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 13
7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? 8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

Ezekiel 13:23
Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Malachi 3:5
And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

Micah 5
11 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strong holds:
12 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:
13 Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 22
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

1 Samuel 15:23 1 Samuel 15 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Your call..

[Ward Smythe]

Your call..

So you show several passages where we can read about witchcraft in the Bible.

And you imply that reading about witchcraft in Harry Potter is the same as practicing witchcraft.

Again, by your logic, you're now practicing witchcraft.

Yup, you'll call it "double speak" again.

Yes, practicing witchcraft is against what the Bible teaches. But if reading about it is wrong, then we couldn't read those passages, so we wouldn't think there was anything wrong and we'd read Harry Potter, but we'd be wrong, but we wouldn't know it because we couldn't read about it, but if we read about then we'd know we were wrong and weren't supposed to read about it...

[RnMomof7]

Ward,why would anyone ,especially a person that believes in God, Christian or Jew..want to read something that God hates?

Isn't there enough other things out there to do for entertainment?

My personal concern is for the long term spiritual impact this will have on the kids..there are already stories on TV how the sale of Tarot cards are up..there are now Harry Potter games,my guess is this will be a big year for ougi (sp) boards....this will begin an interest in the occult that will not go away with the next Disney film..

I find it unbelievable that a Christian parent would knowingly expose his kids to something God hates...

Did you notice the other things God judges with witchcraft? Adultery ,murder ect......would you sit and read pornography with your kids because it is entertaining? God sees it all the same....

It is your call.they are your kids..mine are raised and my kids tell me that my grandkids will not read the books or see the film.....so my family will remain untouched....raise yours as you will...but you can never stand in front of God on the day of accounting and say you didn't know

[Ward Smythe]

My personal concern is for the long term spiritual impact this will have on the kids

I understand and appreciate that. And I respect your opinion and that of your children concerning your grandchildren.

As for the long term spirtual impact. Yeah, if parents aren't involved in their kids lives, not guiding them, not teaching them about the Bible, not taking them to church, then reading a fantasy novel about witchcraft could be harmful. At 12 going on 13 my son is more influenced by WWF than by Harry Potter - and we don't allow him to watch WWF.

But he's also very involved in the youth group and the youth choir and our church Christmas production (which is 18 performances BTW). And just this past weekend when he and his mom picked up an intestinal virus, he didn't ask me for medicine. He asked me to come and sit and pray for him.

Harry Potter is in his life. But so are Legos and Star Wars and Nintendo and Football and Baseball, etc. etc. (we aren't quite up to girls yet). It's something he enjoys. Not something he lives by.

[TomB]

You'll notice that nobody has attempted an answer to your question.

I am also a Christian. Which of us speaks for God when you and I disagree on what His Word says?