Posted on 11/23/2001 7:18:23 AM PST by RealGem
Can we distinguish between Islam and Christianity?
By John J. Abele
November 23, 2001
Recently, Franklin Graham, son and religious successor to the legendary Billy Graham, caused a furor when he said: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion."
The politically correct and the multiculturalists became unhinged. They criticized him and everything he stands for, from every direction. Of course, relatively few people are qualified to make such comparisons, and I am not one of them. You need not be a divinity scholar, however, to see th at the actions, beliefs and proclamations of Muslims are in no way similar to the beliefs of Judeo-Christians, and particularly those of the United States.
Our nation was founded by WASPs, white, Anglo Saxon Protestants. They were initially from England, and were followed by Irish, Scots, French and others from western Europe. Their ideas were in conflict with the official religions of their country of birth, so they fled to North America where they believed they would be free to exercise their Judeo-Christian beliefs.
From the very beginning, political as well as religious leaders, spoke and wrote about the God they believed in. The United States was founded by these men, and there is abundant documentary evidence to support this
The Pilgrims were Protestants, who rejected the institutional Church of England. They believed that the worship of God must originate in the inner man, and that forms of worship prescribed by man interfered with a true relationship with God. The Separatists used the term "church" to refer to the people, the Body of Christ, not to a building or institution. As their Pastor John Robinson said, "(When two or three are) gathered in the name of Christ by a covenant made to walk in all the way of God known unto them as a church ."
"That all the People may with united Hearts on that Day express a just Sense of His unmerited Favors: --Particularly in that it hath pleased Him,by His over ruling Providence to support us in a just and necessary War for the Defense of our Rights and Liberties; ...by defeating the Councils and evil Designs of our Enemies, and giving us Victory over their Troops --and by the Continuance of that Union among these States, which by his Blessing, will be their future Strength & Glory." --Samuel Adams on behalf of the Continental Congress, November 3, 1778, calling for a day of Thanksgiving during our Revolutionary War
"The Pilgrims came to America not to accumulate riches but to worship God, and the greatest wealth they left unborn generations was their heroic example of sacrifice that their souls might be free." --Harry Moyle Tippett
The first national Thanksgiving Proclamation, issued by the revolutionary Continental Congress on November 1, 1777, expressed gratitude for the colonials' October victory over British General Burgoyne at Saratoga. It was authored by Samuel Adams, the man the other Founders turned to for reasoned statements of liberties as God's blessings, its one sentence of 360 words read in part: "Forasmuch as it is the indispensable duty of all men to adore the superintending providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with gratitude their obligation to him for benefits received...together with penitent confession of their sins, whereby they had forfeited every favor; and their humble and earnest supplications that it may please God through the merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of remembrance...it is therefore recommended...to set apart Thursday the eighteenth day of December next, for solemn thanksgiving and praise, that with one heart and one voice the good people may express the grateful feeling of their hearts and consecrate themselves to the service of their Divine Benefactor... acknowledging with gratitude their obligations to Him for benefits received....To prosper the means of religion, for the promotion and enlargement of that kingdom which consisteth 'inrighteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost'."
When independence from England was achieved, and a Constitution written and ratified, freedom of religion was included. It was clearly stated in the First Amendment to the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
At the time the Constitution was written, I doubt that there were any people in the United States who called themselves Muslims. In fact, very few if any even knew there were such people. There were still very few until WW II, when American military men were stationed, and fought all over the globe.
After that war the influx of Muslims, Buddhists, Confucians, and a host of other people with other religions started to immigrate to the United States, in ever increasing numbers. The Constitution guaranteed their religious freedom, and slowly but surely, they started to impose.
Muslims come to the schools in the United States by tens of thousands a year. I would imagine that the number of Americans who go to an Arab country to study could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Simultaneously, they say and do things which clearly show that they, as Muslims, have an inherent hatred of America and Americans. What benefit do we derive from this exchange?
The Muslims who come to the United States as immigrants, and those who become citizens, have no intention of integrating into the existing society They demand special considerations and special privileges - and usually get what they want. Americans have been taught that to do otherwise might be considered racist, and there is nothing worse than that.
No person can live in the United States and not be constantly reminded that we were founded as a Christian nation, and we remain one. You need money to live, and the dollar bill is a constant reminder. Benjamin Franklin believed that no man could create a nation alone, but a group of men, with the help of God, could do anything. "IN GOD WE TRUST" is on our currency. The Latin above the pyramid on the dollar, ANNUIT COEPTIS, means, "God has favored our undertaking." The Latin below the pyramid, NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, means, "a new order has begun."
I have not read the Koran, and I doubt that I will, but there are enough quotes easily available to provide an overview. I think that Franklin Graham said it very well: "The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion."
kangharue:
Here's what the original Greek actually says:
Greek has three words for "one": masculine, feminine, and neuter. The meaning of the sentence, "I an my father are one" will change depending on whether the masculine "one" or the neuter "one" is used. If the masculine "one" is used, the meaning is that the two are of one essence, essentially one THING. If the neuter "one" is used, it means that the two are alike is some way. It could mean something like..they both like fried chicken...or that that they are in agreement about something. The original Greek uses the neuter. So, this passage cannot be used to prove that Jesus and God are one in the same thing...of the same essence.
Also, if you continue on in this passage, Jesus quotes from Psalm 82 and has makes an interesting lesser to the greater comparison between the magistrates of Psalm 82 and his more exalted status. However, there is still nothing in the passage about Jesus claiming divinity.
kangharue:
...and as the Messiah (or Christ). Both views, Christian and Islamic, are at odds with the Old Testament vision of the Messiah.
That depends on the context of the equation. There is no question that the LDS church is not fanatical. The Mormons I have known have all been reasonable, patriotic, friendly people who are model citizens. There is nothing in Mormonism about using violence to convert people. The only method they use is friendliness and door-to-door evangelism. On the other hand, Islam would never accept the notion of a plurality of gods. I was not attempting to equate their belief systems. I was equating the method of their special revelation. That is all.
Shalom.
I concur. "If Christ is not risen from the dead then our faith is in vain." The purpose of my post was to point out that religious issues are important and do impact our lives. Therefore people shouldn't shrug off a question like the title of the article. Your post went one step further and explained one reason why, if you study the issues, you must come to the conclusion that Christianity is the valid religion. There are other reasons as well. But I leave those to evangelistic threads.
Shalom.
http://www.sultan.org/articles/Jesus.html
Are you retarded? or do you think the rest of us are?
Oh, and no, I don't think you're retarded, nor do I think anyone else here is retarded. Was that the only insult you could come up with?
Background
Long before this ministry was incorporated, we were individually involved in the same kind of activity but with somewhat different focus. At first we were concentrating more on the task of defending the human rights of Christians living under Islamic regimes in the Middle East. It was logical, to our minds, that since we were once living under these same circumstances, that we would have feelings of compassion towards our brethren who were still there.
These feelings have not changed, and these efforts have not stopped. However, we recently, came to the realization that we could not separate the teachings of Islam from the plight of those people.Muslims are not inherently violent; it is their interpretation of some of Islam's teachings, that make some of them act that way.
Accordingly, we decided to expand our ministry to expose these teachings, especially after we learned that Muslim activists were working fervently to convert America to Islam. Our concern was that, while we were defending our people in the Middle East, we did not want our children or grandchildren in America to face the same problems we did in our mother countries, if Islam were to take over America.
Our Theology
This ministry was established as a Christian organization. Our beliefs, methods and activities are based on and influenced by Christian ethics. Our members are Christians who belong to different Christian denominations. We do not interfere in each persons beliefs and practices. However, we all share the belief in a basic set of doctrines recognized and accepted by most mainstream Christian churches. These beliefs are incorporated in what is known as "the Nicene Creed."
Our Support
This ministry is 100% based on volunteerism. Nobody gets a salary, and we don't have a payroll. All revenues go to the actual cost of producing and mailing the materials. We engage in the most effective methods of ministry that require the least amount of money. Part of our ministry is to financially assist Christians living under Islam who suffer hardships, as our budget allows.
Our financial support comes mainly from our own group, and from others who share the same convictions. Our method of fund raising is to simply to declare the need, and let God do the convincing. We believe, if it is in God's will that a certain project be accomplished, He will provide for it. We don't believe in bombarding our supporters with financial requests, or applying any pressure on them to give. We encourage people to give out of a cheerful heart, from the abundance of God's blessings and only if they believe in the message of this ministry. We don't compete with the local churches in this matter, we ask our supporters to put their churches first.
Our Mission
Muslim activists, in their attempt to spread their religion in the West, have been deliberately hiding a certain side of their religion. They carefully avoid, obscure and omit any negative teachings of Islam in order to lure converts. Our mission is to expose these teachings that are withheld from seekers in order to help people gain a more realistic insight of what it is like to live under Islam.
Our Method
Our name, "The Pen vs. The Sword," well summarizes our philosophy. We believe that "the Pen is mightier than the Sword," and love is stronger than hatred. Our weapon is the pen, our ammunition is the word. The Bible says: "the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword." Hebrews 4:12.
We try to make our message simple, direct and clear. We take the daring approach of proclaiming the truth in its entirety, even if it hurts. In doing so we may lose some friends or make few enemies. Of course, we don't derive any satisfaction from being disliked, we would rather be liked by everybody. The Bible says, "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." Romans 12:18. However, we recognize that it is not possible to please everybody, at all times, and still be true to our calling. Jesus warns, "Woe to you when all men shall speak well of you,...." Luke 6:26
Perhaps what provides the balance is the fact that we do nothing out of spite or pride. Rather it is, with love and humility, that we sincerely seek the truth.
There's other Biblical passages where Jesus makes clear he is God. What do you think "No one knows the Father except the Son" means, for example?
kangharue:
This is a joke...right?
kangharue:
Maybe not...but it doesn't mean what you said it means either. The use of the neuter "one" means they are alike/in agreement in SOME way. One possible interpretation is that Jesus perfectly follows the will of God...so perfectly that they are "ena", not "enas" (using Modern Greek here)
laser:
There's other Biblical passages where Jesus makes clear he is God. What do you think "No one knows the Father except the Son" means, for example?
kangharue:
Why would that be a claim to divinity?
Not even the physical healings that baffle doctors, with medical records to back it up?
If (as I believe) miracles indeed accompany any revelation of Scripture, why are there no miracles of the myriad types recorded in the Jewish books and the Christian New Testament recorded in the Quran (healings etc.)?
a_Turk: I don't know. Many nights of prayer may yield some answer. Maybe 'coz they were not thought to be needed to entice with.
Nice to meet someone who acknowledges what they don't know :) As regards the miracles recorded in the Bible, I have yet to come across one which could be regarded as superficial and designed to entice. They are all God meeting a point of need and showing His glory to us.
2. If the Quran is a follow on from the Jewish Scriptures and the New Testament, why does it differ from them on many major historical points?
a_Turk: Lots of possibilities. Any specifics?
Plenty, but a few of the more obvious ones are:
a) Noah's flood took place in Moses day(Sura 7:136, 7:59). The Bible says that the flood took place long before even Abraham was born, and Moses was born several generations after Abraham lived.
b) Abraham was thrown into a fire by Nimrod (Suras 21:68, 69; 9:69). The Bible says that Nimrod lived many centuries before Abraham, so he could not have done that
c) Abraham went to sacrifice Ishmael (Sura 37:100-112). The Bible says it was Issac
That's enough to be going on with, I think :)
3. If one of the ongoing miracles claimed is the preservation of the Quran according to Allahs promise that he would preserve his word from corruption, how can the simultaneous claims that a) Allah preserves his word uncorrupted, and b) that the Jewish books and the Bible are corrupted, possibly be reconciled?
a_Turk: Where in the Koran does it state that the Holy Books are corrupted?
I am not aware that it does (I didn't say it did, certainly), but the claim "The Bible has been corrupted, but the Quran is perfectly preserved" is one I frequently hear from Muslims I encounter in chatrooms. I asked a few of them where they heard that and was told it is a fundamental truth, the Bible must contain errors because it disagrees with the Quran in places, and the Quran is perfect.
It's the people who are corrupted, as they foolishly find "loopholes" and succumb to their irresistable urges to sin. That's evident from the state of our Muslims, Christians, and Jews (spoken as a human) today..
All too true, unfortunately. So many think if they pay lip service to God they can get away with anything. If they don't realise that they are sinners in need of a merciful Saviour before they die, it's too late - forever.
Can we distinguish between Islam and Christianity?
Oops, that was the original question...LOL
Read the first chapter of the Old Testament carefully and you will see it there.
LOL Jesus the terrorist...did he (his followers) send those planes into the WTC?
Don't make others do all the work for you. Scroll up and you will see many quotes.
Didn't you read the whole thread?
You are asking questions that have already been answered above.
Synchro:
Read the first chapter of the Old Testament carefully and you will see it there.
Elizabeth:
Even the Quran does this. It's a "royal" plural...found in some languages.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.