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I'm not trying to sound stupid; yes, as ANY living creature I need compassion....but what I was trying to get YOU to see was that you (OK, let's remove YOU and use the third person. I'll call him Ralph)....I was trying to get Ralph to see that he was being sympathetic (a GOOD, HIGHLY COMMENDABLE thing) to a person who had miscarried. Ralph referred to them as babies, even though one of the babies was around 7 weeks old. Yet, Ralph in other ways, can't quite put a time-line on when he feels that blob IS a baby.

pcl, I've totally enjoyed the feedback back & forth with each other. At no time was I trying to be argumentative. I absolutely appreciate your honesty regarding your daughter. You see, you're not the only one in that situation......so I CAN understand.

I look at my children, I look at the grandchild, and at no time in their gestation did I think of them as fetuses. When I found out I was pregnant, I was PREGNANT! I wasn't going to wait for some pull-out-of-the-hat-date to declare that I was carrying a child. It was a CHILD from day one. Same thing w/the grandchild. When it was announced to us, it was a BABY that was going to be born.

There's so many home-pregnancy tests out now that can give you a really early reading. You're finding out if you're going to have A BABY, not a fetus.

I don't know, but to me it's so clear, it's like the nose on my face.

And, I know it's not proper protacol (sp) to jump from one thread to another, but I want to bring something up that I read last night regarding some dufus who had put out a death-threat against abortionists. He should be caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I wager that all pro-lifers on this forum agree with me. What's he's trying to do IS WRONG!!!!!!! He would be committing murder right along with the abortionists who are committing murder on the babies.

This is an argument where we're never going to reach a middle ground on, is it? pcl, I'm a Christian. I read my Bible not for "information" or "feedback" or "entertainment"....I read it because God commands me to. I read it to find out how to live my life. I BELIEVE the words in the book. Yeah, a person can go kinda goofy and use the Thou Shalt Not Kill argument regarding wars that we're in. I don't remember if you did, someone did within the last couple days. That's taking scripture and twisting it. And I think, deep down, that person (whoever it was) knows exactly the game they're trying to play.

You and I discussed the handing out of literature to the girls going into the clinics. While I appreciate what you said, you know that that won't happen. We're all portrayed as kooks. (thanks a bunch to the above mentioned dufus!) If Planned Parenthood really WAS what they say, they themselves would offer the girls the same thing. Please don't come back & say they do, cuz they don't. Also, why haven't the stats come out re: the breast cancer and the infertility from having had abortions? (YOU can't answer it, it's just food for thought)

I can't be on here much longer tonight. I have to pack up the hubby for a trip...but I can be on for a bit. Thanks for reading my VOLUME!!!! :-)

You will just have take it faith that I feel sympathy for the lady who lost her 7 week old fetus which she believes is a child. You will just have to take it on faith that I feel that genuine sympathy for her without compromising my belief about what that 7 week old fetus really is. If you can not figure out how I can do it, then just take on faith that I do it. I am not smart enough to find any words to explain this that will satisfy you.

I don't know, but to me it's so clear, it's like the nose on my face.

I can really understand how and why you believe that a fully valid human is created at the moment of conception. It is really quite simple. That is what you believe. You believe it first and foremost. You will use scriptures, science, logic or what ever else is available to back up your belief but those things are just back up. They do not create your beliefs, they just support it. No scriptures, science or logic that points towards your belief being untrue is going to make the slightest difference to you. Your belief is before and beyond all those things. Your belief just IS! Period. End of story!

There are situations that result from our beliefs that are negotiable. For example, Pro-Lifers handing out literature to women entering into abort clinics. We can negotiate this. We can find a compromise that sort of works for both of us. There are many similar things we can negotiate. But, the bottom line is that no matter what we give up in negotiations of these sorts of things, we will never, NEVER give up our core belief.

Imagine this situation. There is a pregnant woman and an abotion doctor getting ready to do his deed. I am standing there guarding them with a pistol at my side. Now, you walk in. You have a gun at your side. You say you will kill me and the doctor to keep the abortion from happening. You know I am armed and that I am there to defend the abortion. At that moment we each have to decide if we are willing to die for our belief. All BS about scripture, science and law put aside, are we each willing to die for our belief.

My answer is yes. I believe your would be yes also.

Fortunetly, we live in a civilized world. The above situation is not likely to occur in our life time.