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To: Sabramerican
"The rebuttable presumption is that they did not convert. Do you have a reasonable reason to believe otherwise?"

If the women did not convert then that would tend to imply that the Lemba Jews are of Jewish ancestry through both the maternal and paternal lines. If so then this has to be reconciled with the claim that the Ashkenazic Jews are pure on both the maternal and paternal lines. The Lemba and the Ashkenazim cannot both be 100% pure genetic Jews on both the maternal and paternal lines.

I think the case of the Lemba serves to prove my case that there has been mixing among Jewish populations in general. The Lemba have the highest degree of purity in the Cohen priestly gene. If blacks can have the highest degree of purity in this priestly Y-chromosome gene then I can see no other possible choice but to conclude that there actually has been quite a bit of mixing between Jews and the people amongst which they live with the end result that Jews tend to resemble the populations amongst which they live. If Jewish immigrants mixed with blacks in Africa so as to produce a population of Negroid Jews then surely a similar process may also have happened in Europe and elsewhere. At the same time, the genetic evidence shows that Jews also do have some genetic commonalities among them. But there also has been mixing.

51 posted on 11/19/2001 5:56:59 PM PST by Marduk
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To: Marduk
would tend to imply that the Lemba Jews are of Jewish ancestry through both the maternal and paternal lines.

I have no idea to what you are referring. If we are speaking of the same group, all I heard is that they have the gene of the Cohanim.

I have written above, that it is possible that there are people all over who are of Jewish decent and don't even know of their ancestors. I would guess there would be many such types from Spanish and Italian backgrounds. That is not the issue. If those people find that they are Jews and want to identify with the Jewish people, they are welcome.

The issue is the direct decent of today's Jews from their distant ancestors.

53 posted on 11/19/2001 6:06:17 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Marduk
I think the case of the Lemba serves to prove my case that there has been mixing among Jewish populations in general.

This has been dealt with already. Some mixing but as the Hammer test clearly shows VERY LOW admixture considering the diasporas length and breath.

If blacks can have the highest degree of purity in this priestly Y-chromosome gene then I can see no other possible choice but to conclude that there actually has been quite a bit of mixing between Jews and the people amongst which they live with the end result that Jews tend to resemble the populations amongst which they live. If Jewish immigrants mixed with blacks in Africa so as to produce a population of Negroid Jews then surely a similar process may also have happened in Europe and elsewhere. At the same time, the genetic evidence shows that Jews also do have some genetic commonalities among them. But there also has been mixing.

You've moved from Cohen marker on this small group to a general statement about Jews which is false. The Kohathites originally may have had a narrow African intermixture since the ancient Israelites came out of North Africa after being slaves there for hundreds of years. Also, the Kohathites were not one of the 12 Tribes of Israel. Hence their, distinctiveness was related to the fact that Kohath, who was the son of Levi, was the father of Amram, Izher, Hebron and Uzziel (Exod. 6:18; Num 3:19, 27; 1 Chron. 6:3). In other words there were several Kohathite branches of the Levitical families (Num. 3:27). It is NOT necessary to assume some kind of admixture after the diaspora. At the outset, since there were several Kohathite branches there may have been this African connection albeit limited.

Your assumptions were taken broadly unecessarily and you wanted to attenuate the issue beyond other reasonable explanations.

61 posted on 11/19/2001 6:37:03 PM PST by Lent
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