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you're not too bright when it comes to judging others. I guess your definition of conservative has been self defined as the baseline for "conservative." We're a group that ranges from the far right on a scale to the middle of the road or in my opinion we cover the range of all people who do not espouse the LIBERAL/Leftist agenda = not easy to define.

I do know that to be conservative not to very long ago meant that you agreed with religious people more than leftists. That you believed freely available pornography was bad for people and society, not a "right" of the people. That drugs were harmful to people and society, not a "right" for the people. That true freedom is the right of society to restrict that which does harm, not encourage it.

My only contribution to this thread will be to tell conservatives to quit trying to explain yourself to libertarians, particularly about the drug issue. It's all "free will" and "my body", etc., etc. You try to explain that the problem with using drugs is how you affect the lives of other people from your drug use, and you get accused of not answering their question, and pap about how making drugs illegal is unconstitutional.

I recently got into an attempted discussion with someone about the constitution, and they couldn't (or wouldn't) understand the concept of only "fundamental rights" being protected, didn't understand what the 14th Amendment did, didn't understand the historical context of the constitution, etc. Everything was seen through the prism of today's world, which is exactly the opposite of what is supposed to be done.

I know there are libertarians here who are not like this, but I've seen too many who fit the sterotype of arrogant, condescending crank who lives in their parents' basement and smoke dope all day long read Ayn Rand instead of getting a job.

Flame away.

I do know that to be conservative not to very long ago meant that you agreed with religious people more than leftists.

So leftists are NOT religious? I have a cousin married to a USC professor that's a born again Christian. She's a leftist and AntiWar - all the rest. I'm not very religious and consider myself rather conservative and HARD CORE Republican. That you believed freely available pornography was bad for people and society, not a "right" of the people. That drugs were harmful to people and society, not a "right" for the people. That true freedom is the right of society to restrict that which does harm, not encourage it.

IMO these issues you raise have NOTHING - ZERO to do with politics. They are personal, religious convinctions in nature. Pornography is not harmful to adults. Many of us use alcohol, cigarettes, grass... I have no problem with you and your beliefs and I grant you the RIGHT to believe them, but please don't expect me not to look at Playboy or smoke a little grass.

I do know that to be conservative not to very long ago meant that you agreed with religious people more than leftists

First of all, the "hard drinking" rebels that founded the country called themselves "liberals." Even the fundies amongst them, like Patrick Henry were not "conservatives" of the time. The "liberal" fundies and rationalists that founded our nation embraced the radically "liberal" notion at the time of toleration of all religions--fundie and otherwise.

The conservatives at the time of the founding were loyal to old political ideas of the time like monarchy and a state church.

At the beginning of the 20th century, the meanings of the political terms "liberal" and "conservative" reversed themselves with regard to fundie-religion. The hard drinking "conservatives" like Mencken opposed the "liberal" church lady prohibitionist reformers.

Sometime during World War II, the next group of Americans to call themselves "conservatives" re-adopted fundie religion, empire, and declared war on communism.

The last good Americans to call themselves liberals were around at the time of the founding and the last good Americans to call themselves "conservatives" were around at the turn of the century. Hence, the terms "classical liberal" and "paleo-conservative.""