Posted on 11/19/2001 8:16:31 AM PST by SocialMeltdown
It matters not for those who call evil good! I will not celebrate darkness by having fellowship with it. If such a thing were to happen in my church, I would leave it as I am a part of a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. It is to be preferred to be called ignorant and bigoted by men than to soil the garment given to me by my Y'Shua and washed by the blood of His grace.
I think they (Mizz Snider and her church buddies) are going to have to tighten up and get out of the "New Ages", and accept what the real Scripture is about.
"Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."
Does anyone else see the AMAZING irony in this statement?
Anyway... I have a couple of serious questions. Why do people always laugh and say they deserved it when a homosexual gets AIDS... I have seen heterosexuals with AIDS too, ya know... I'm really just curious why everyone sees this as a strictly "gay" disease.
On another note... jimt said "Why not those who practice bestiality, or pedophiles? It's only sexual orientation, right?"
Do you honestly consider pedophilia(sp?) and homosexuality to be on the same level? One involves two consenting adults, the other involves one adult, and one child... BIG difference. Bestiality is a whole 'nother issue... lol, I don't feel like getting into that right now. :P
Anyway, before anyone calls me a homosexual, I'm not. :P I'm just playing a little devil's advocate trying to get to the heart of the issues.
I have it on good authority that 100% of the Catholic clergy are sinners. I've heard the percentage is high in other denominations as well. Do you know otherwise?
As for this being a uniquely "RC" problem, it isn't. Clergy pedophilia and illicit sexual involvement in general is a serious problem across the Christian spectrum, and outside of the Christian world, for that matter.
All of which sidesteps the point, which is this. Catholic teaching on this matter is crystal clear. All homosexual activity, indeed, all sexual activity outside of lawful marriage, is the grave matter of mortal sin. Period. We haven't changed one iota. And, in point of fact, although the entire Protestant world caved on the issue of contraception, beginning with the Anglicans in the 1930's, we haven't changed one iota on that, either. (The two issues are linked. Contraception and sodomy are both non-reproductive acts; sex for pleasure alone, no babies wanted. Even a former Archbishop of Canterbury said that the Anglicans undermined their objection to homosexual acts when they approved of contraception in 1930.)
The Presbyterians would be startled to hear your description of them as "not Reformed".
No difference! Sin is sin; its wages, death! BTW, at the same level are 2 consenting adults engaging in heterosexual sex. No difference! Only the child is the victim.
I would be interested to see the Catholic scripture basis for their position on contraception.
The way some members of the homosexual community see it, there should be no difference and they are working to eliminate age of consent laws. While not every homosexual is a pedophile, the homosexual community in general does not stongly condemn homosexual pedophilia.
An excerpt from: "Will Pedophilia Be Next In Massachusetts Schools? 'Child Molestation' Is Being 'Normalized'" by J. Edward Pawlick, Publisher, Massachusetts News:
"The Boston Phoenix is a leading advocate of pedophilia in Massachusetts. A popular columnist for the Phoenix, Michael Bronski, wrote in March 1999 that the concern about protecting our children is only "gay-bashing." He said that the concern about pedophilia is "simply the latest in a series of ongoing attacks on gay people and gay rights that use the protection of children as a cover for homophobia."
But Bronski let the-cat-out-of-the-bag in the last paragraph of his article when he repeated the canard that children are "empowered" and have "autonomy" when they have the ability to have sex with adults. He wrote, "Gay-bashing under the guise of child protection will never go away until we as a culture can discuss the lives and needs of children openly and honestly — and include recognition of their sexuality, freedom, and autonomy." [emphasis added] In his world, a child who is twelve years, or even younger, will be allowed to decide when or where he will have sex. This is exactly what the pedophiles wish because it will totally empower them...
Up until 1990, NAMBLA was a fringe element in the homosexual movement.
Then the Journal of Homosexuality published a special double issue devoted to the subject. We began to hear the same arguments from adult pedophiles that we hear from homosexuals:
"I was born that way."
"I can't change."
One article in the special issue said that parents should look upon a pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a thief of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home..." A professor of social science at the State University of New York said he looks forward to the day when Americans will "get over their hysteria about child abuse."
From the North American Man/Boy Love Association - Actual NAMBLA Brochure
Spend some time reading the information linked in Reply #34, Reply #40 and Reply #64 in the message thread 'L.I.E.' Is Infomercial For North American Man-Boy Love Association and decide for yourself.
Without getting into great detail, if one believes that Conservatism has its roots in the inalienable rights granted to every man by the Creator, maybe, just maybe, Conservatism should be interested in the Creator's rules for His universe. Many of us Christian Conservatives believe that these rules are contained in the Bible.
Because some people are simply mean.
The Christian may regret that someone engaged in homosexual behavior and will die as a result of, but there will be no joy in this. Neither do we celebrate the smoker getting lung cancer or the cheeseburger-lover having a heart attack (although those choices have nothing to do with moral choices).
Fringe elements such as the Rev. Phelps are the exception that helps prove the rule.
I'm really just curious why everyone sees this as a strictly "gay" disease.
Not strictly but mostly a homosexual disease, particularly in this country.
Do you honestly consider pedophilia(sp?) and homosexuality to be on the same level?
Both are sexual perversions. Such perversions are a slippery slope.
One involves two consenting adults, the other involves one adult, and one child...
Have you not noticed the recent moves by some homosexuals to try to convince people that children can give consent and that no harm comes from such "inter-generational" contacts.
Have you not noticed the silence from such groups as the so-called Human Rights Commission, GLAAD, and PFLAG concerning this?
It is all part of what Daniel Patrick Moynihan termed "defining deviancy down."
It took me about 20 seconds to find this on the Web.
Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11 - the Lord commands us to be fruitful ("fertile") and multiply. We cooperate with the Creator's love.
Gen. 28:3 - Isaac's prayer over Jacob shows that fertility and procreation are considered blessings from God.
Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.
Gen. 38:11-26 - Judah (like Onan) also rejected God's command to keep up the family lineage, but he was not killed.
Deut. 25:7-10 - penalty for refusing to keep up lineage is not death, like Onan received. Onan was killed for wasting seed.
Gen. 38:9 - also, the usage of the graphic word "seed," uncharacteristic for Hebrew writing, highlights the reason for death.
Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14 - God promises blessings which include no miscarriages or barrenness. The family reflects the Blessed Trinity.
Lev.18:22-23;20:13 - wasting seed with non-generative sexual acts warrants death. Many Protestant churches reject this teaching.
Lev. 21:17,20 - crushed testicles are called a defect and a blemish before God. Deliberate sterilization is intrinsically evil.
Deut. 23:1 - whoever has crushed testicles or is castrated cannot enter the assembly. Contraception is objectively sinful.
Deut. 25:11-12 - punishment for potential damage to testicles. Hence, vasectomies are gravely contrary to the natural law.
1 Chron. 25:5 - God exalts His people by blessing with many children. Contraception = not your will God, but my will be done.
Psalm 127:3-5 - children are a gift of favor from God and blessed is a full quiver. We must be open to God's gift of life.
Hosea 9:11; Jer. 18:21 - God punishes Israel by preventing pregnancy. Contraception is a curse.
Mal. 2:14 - Marriage is not a contract. It is a covenant - a supernatural exchange of persons with children as the fruit of the union.
Mal. 2:15 - What does God desire? Godly offspring. Contraception = God may want an eternal being created, but I say no.
Matt. 19:5-6 - Jesus said a husband and wife shall become one. They are no longer two, but one, as God is three persons, yet one.
Matt. 19:6; Eph. 5:31 - contraception prevents God's ability to "join" together. God's love for the Church is selfless and sacrificial.
Acts 5:1-11 - Ananias and Sapphira were slain because they withheld part of a gift. Fertility is a gift from God and cannot be withheld.
Rom.1:26-27 - sexual acts without the possibility of procreation is sinful. Self-giving love is life-giving love.
1 Cor. 6:19-20 - the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; thus, we must glorify God in our bodies.
1 Cor. 7:5 - natural family planning (NFP). Do not refuse each other except perhaps by agreement for a season, naturally.
Gal. 6:7-8 - God is not mocked for what a man sows. If to the flesh, corruption. If to the Spirit, eternal life.
Eph. 5:25 - husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church - by giving his entire body and holding nothing back.
Eph. 5:29-31; Phil. 3:2 - mutilating the flesh (e.g. surgery to prevent conception) is sinful. Some Protestant churches reject this teaching.
1 Tim. 2:15 - childbearing is considered a "work" through which women may be saved by God's grace.
Rev. 9:21; 21:8; 22:15; Gal. 5:20- sorcery = "pharmakeia" = includes abortifacient potions such as birth control pills = mortally sinful.
Now comes the fun part, watching some people do backflips showing how none of the above applies.
This sounds like very sick performance art to me.
I did not know that you were a Predestinarian!
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