Usefulness of SAT Test Is Debated in California

NY Times ^ | 11-17-01 | Jacques Steinberg

[Pharmboy]

That's right: the SAT measures thinking ability and that's not what colleges are interested in. Rather than trying to bring the weaker ones up to snuff, let's quit using any measuring standards. If the SAT is gone, higher education will be in an even sorrier state than it is now.

[BlessedBeGod]

They must be afraid that all their students will score less than 200. ;-)

[coloradan]

Usefulness of SAT Test Is Debated in California

Is that the normal SAT test, or the scholastic aptitude SAT test? (Do the New York NYT Times reporters know what acronyms mean?)

[Always Right]

They must think it is so much easier to admit students based on the color of their skin than on some silly test....

[anton]

Since African Americans score one to one and one-half standard deviations below non-African Americans on intelligence tests of all types, the SAT must be discredited in order to maintain the illusion that affirmative action does not mean promoting the less qualified.

[StockAyatollah]

The GMAT was my last standardized test. The questions were so PC I should have been given a barf alert! One of them was something about Western exploitation of Africa. BARF! Being forced to read this garbage really hurt my performance.

[kylaka]

Do you know the history of the SAT test Pharmboy?

[Slyfox]

The SAT scores are used not only in getting a kid into college, but they are also used to let people know how well a school system is doing, so that when you are looking at houses you can see if it would be worth moving into that school system. SAT scores will still be important whether the "Bellweather" State decides to continue it or not.

[quebecois]

Keep your eye on the ball. The only reason that this test now is of questionable "usefulness" is because some less favored groups don't score as well as some more favored groups. Without the SAT as an objective measure of student aptitude, the lefties that run Cal's university system will be free to dream up goofy, subjective criteria for admission that magically give them their politically correct racial ratios....and no one will be able to call them on it.

They hate the SAT because it leaves an evidence trail of their anti-white discrimination.

[general_re]

Since then, just one other selective public or private institution ? Hamilton College in upstate New York ? has said it would follow suit.

For those not in the know, Hamilton College, just outside of Utica, NY, is the sort of place that put the "liberal" in "liberal arts". Very insular, very white-bread, very expensive. Last I checked, tuition, room, and board was just shy of $35,000 a year.

All that for academics that are, frankly, not at all impressive. So how do I know? My wife went there...for one year, and then she transferred out, saying that they were all a bunch of a-holes ;)

[Forgiven_Sinner]

According to the article, the SAT I measures: ". . . general aptitude or reasoning in mathematics, vocabulary, reading and other areas."

And colleges DON'T want to know this? Um, are they trying to get untalented students? At least they're not all government funded.

My friend in H.S. got a 1500 SAT. I had another friend in college who got a 1600. I was in freshman honors chemistry class of 150 at Case Western Reserve, where the requirement was an SAT math of 700. There are smart people out there--do you want them in your college or in another college? Obviously they won't go to a college with low standards.

And let's look at college as a business: you want to maximize your revenue and profit. The more students you get, the more money you get. The more research money you get, the more money you get. The more rich alumni you get, the more money you get. Students often want a good education (not always--sometimes the student doesn't pay the bill). Research is done on the backs of graduate students, directed by the faculty member. Grad students go where they can do the most interesting research. Faculty members want the smartest grad students. Rich alumni come from successful people who feel their college helped them in life. If college focuses on PC and not smarts, who would ever learn anything to make money? The policy advocated by this guy in CA seems to be self defeating.

[southernnorthcarolina]

Here we go again. Liberals complaining that the SATs are racially biased. How do they know the tests are biased? Because blacks tend to score lower on them. This, of course, is nothing more than circular logic.

No test or measurement of academic achievement is going to be a perfect predictor of college performance, of course. But I would submit that standardized tests provide a far more accurate yardstick than do grade point averages and high school class rank.

It would be politically incorrect, of course, but if I were in charge of admissions to a college, I'd take the pool of applicants who are prepared to pay full tuition (without expecting someone else to pick up the tab), and go straight down the list of SAT scores, highest first, until the entering freshman class was filled. This method would produce some "mistakes" of course, but I'd bet it would produce a student body far superior to those produced by the typical "need-blind, diversity conscious" selection process now in favor.

Selective colleges and universities have entering freshman classes of finite sizes. Admit a student with lower academic qualifications, and you are, by definition, discriminating against a more qualified applicant who got squeezed out. Particularly in the case of state schools, this is unacceptable, and I'm glad to see more and more people fighting back.

[Pharmboy]

Nice pick-up coloradan. Must admit, I missed it.

[Pharmboy]

Do you know the history of the SAT test Pharmboy?

No I do not. And furthermore, I will not do a Google search for the answer because you obviously know it and will post it on this thread. I look forward to your reply.

And, you made the same mistake that the NY Times headline writer made that coloradan pointed out above: SAT test is redundant. But, we are not grading on this thread. ( ;-)

[Pharmboy]

There was an AP article a few years back that spoke about the difference between grades in high school and SAT scores. The gist was this: girls do better than boys in almost all grades in school, yet boys do better than girls in both the math and verbal parts of the SAT. A spokeswoman for some educational organization said that this was proof that there was bias...AGAINST GIRLS BY THE SAT QUESTIONS!!

This idiot was making the case that a test that is given and graded blindly is biased but grades by teachers cannot be influenced by non-scholastic issues. It could never be bias against boys by teachers when they grade them. Unbelievable, huh?

[Pharmboy]

Right here in NYC during the 40s, 50s and 60s, we had city colleges that were excellent (Colin Powell was the product of one of them). They did not care what color or religion you were...but they were very competitive academically. At the end of the 60s, they began "open enrollment." The diplomas are now worthless.

[DallasJ7]

I feel sorry for the College Board. The funny thing is that the SAT always includes at least one minority passage on every test, in response previous criticism of racial bias. And people still call it biased.

I'm going to be taking the SAT soon, and a tip that I've read is that in the minority passage, to get some guaranteed points, always choose the most positive answer to the minority.

[FITZ]

There's all that scholarship money that can only go to minorities, maybe they are upset about losing it. They're ruining the universities very fast with all this political correctness that's replacing knowledge and critical thinking. Already we see people with four year degrees who can't perform basic math and have no knowledge of history or current events.

[mbb bill]

A sorry bunch that can't teach. Abolish the department of education and the teachers union!!!!

[kylaka]

Ackkk. I did, didn't I.? Testing, testing.