The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

www.cactus48.com ^ | 2000 | Jews for Justice

[Lent]

Seems 90%+ of the land for the new Jewish state was owned by the Ottomans/Turks

And before them the Monguls, and before them the Mameluk Sultans of Egypt, and before them Kharezmians, and before them the Saladin of Damascus (a Kurd), and before them the Crusaders, and before them the Seljuk Turks, and before them the Egyptians (Fatimid caliphs), and before them the Abbassids of Baghdad, and before them more Turks, and before them the Arabs, and before them the Byzantines and before them....

[Lent]

Yeah, that's the laughable tune by equus. We'll let the world and history pass them by though.

[Lent]

I find that estimate ridiculous. Moreover, Jews comprised only one-third of the population at the time. It was imperative to drive the Arabs out for there to be a true Jewish state. But the Balfour Declaration distinctly warned against violating the "civil and religious rights of the existing non- Jewish population." Whether or not land was bought is is beside the point. The Zionist plan to create a Jewish state in a region already populated by an Arab majority was destined to create violence.

That's funny because the Balfour Declaration and Article 6 of the British Mandate specifically gave ALL of Palestine, East and West of the Jordan to the Jews. What happened in 1922 though? Seventy-seven percent chopped up and given as a gift to the Arabs Jew free. Sounds like the Arabs got more than they dreamed of. Moreover it was the British who created the fiction of Arab displacement after the Mufti led riots in 1929 with their preposterous claims in the White Paper of 1930 and the Hope Simpson Report of the same year. Interesting that the later Anglo-American Committee (1945-46) noted that the Hope Simpson and White Paper where inclined to the Arab side (i.e., biased).

[Lent]

The Zionist plan to create a Jewish state in a region already populated by an Arab majority was destined to create violence

What was destined to create violence was the NAZI Grand Mufti who immediately upon his appointment started the propaganda and hatred.

[anapikoros]

Bingo - great answer to the befuddled one.

[anapikoros]

If I may - around 80%.

[dennisw]

The Zionist plan to create a Jewish state in a region already populated by an Arab majority was destined to create violence.

What would you have had these Jews do? Live under the thumb of the Arabs as dhimmis? Stay in Europe and be killed by Nazis which most Jews were anyway?
Zionism is good. Zionism saved Jews from the Nazis.

Now here's a really big clue for you. The figures in that post are true. The Ottomans owned the land...then the British Mandate ...even now a huge chunk of land in owned by the Government of Israel. This is how things are done there. Individuals don't care about owning desert land and near desert land, land that is near impossible to cultivate or live on. This is why so much of the land there has been and is owned by the state. Makes sense to me.

All you have to do is look at the drier, less populated West of the United States. The Federal Government owns a lot more land than in the crowded Eastern USA. Same for Alaska which is also inhospitable. The Feds own most of Alaska

[dennisw]

Sabra/Shatila death toll goes anywhere from 700 to 3000 depending on the propagandist who is tyring to make Ariel Sharon and Israel look bad.

I think the recent one from Chris Hedges in Harpers went for 2000.

[dennisw]

The Arabs would have gotten (inherited) these same vast lands owned by the Ottomans and then the Brit Mandate. Instead Jordan seized it in 1948. I assume the same thing in Gaza but less so since Gaza is not so much of a desert. Jordan seized the West Bank and Egypt took Gaza.

[anapikoros]

Are you sure the Turkish gov and not private absentee Turkish landlords owned this huge chunk of Palestine

Yep I have a reference for Ottoman Land Laws but its 4:44 am here so it will ahve to wait till tomorrow.

Just want to get to the end of this thread then beddy byes.

[dennisw]

The Arabs--called "squatters" by some of you--were indeed for the most part only unlettered peasants, but they comprised most of the population that had lived on that land for over a thousand years.

Not true. Most were not there for 1000 years. I will be polite and not call this a fanciful lie.

It was never an empty land--which was still another myth.

Yes it was empty and desolate. I have pictures of weeds growing around the Dome of the Rock. Mark Twain gives a famous account of this. Not empty as in ZERO population  .. but empty none the less.  When Jews came, many Arabs immigrated from Iraq, Syria etc.

Go read "From Time Immemorial"

[Lent]

My friend, read the above text. It's fully documented. The Jews vetoed any suggestion that there be self-determination by the people of Palestine from the beginning. They exerted considerable political pressure on the British to prevent this. The plan from the beginning was to dispossess the Arabs. Ben Gurion even went so far as to admit in private correspondence that they, the Jews, were the aggressors, that the Arabs were acting in self- defense.

This is nothing but revisionist history. The usual routine is to take quotes from the Yishuv leadership and others out of context. Ben Gurion is a favorite target of the anti-Zionists and so-called New Historians. Benny Morris, in his book, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-49 does this. Efraim Karsh, in his book, Fabricating Israeli History(2000), states the usual methodology of revisionists like you and the New Historians and anti-Zionists is to play fast and loose with quotes from individuals like Ben Gurion, Theodor Herzl, etc.:

"...an examination of the documentation used by several key 'new historians', as well as of sources witheld from their readers, led to the disturbing conclusion that Morris's [one of the 'new historians' Benny Morris] were neither a fluke nor an exception. Rather they typified the modus operandi of a sizeable group of academics, jornalists, and commentators, who had predicated their professional careers on rewriting Israel's history in an image of their own choosing so as to cast it in the role of the regional villain. This is not a matter of contending interpretations or different readings of documents-both of which are perfectly legitimate aspects of scholarly research.It is a deliberate attempt at historical distortion. Nothing more, nothing less." (Karsh is Director of Mediterranean Studies at King's College, University of London).from: Fabricating Israeli History(2001) Preface by Efraim Karsh.

Nothing could be more clear than all this. The Arabs--called "squatters" by some of you--were indeed for the most part only unlettered peasants, but they comprised most of the population that had lived on that land for over a thousand years.

More revisionist history. This business of "over a thousand years" is a complete fabrication. There were some small communities which were of long duration but these were disparate populations and whatever Arab Islamics populated these diparate communities benefited from Arab colonization themselves. Jews also resided in numerous communities throughout this area. Many were driven off by Arab colonization or colonization initiated by the Ottoman empire.

 

Historic Rights—
                         An Overview of History (excerpts)

With the exception of the 70 years' Babylonian desolation/captivity, the Jewish people have lived without interruption in the Land of Israel as a nation until A.D. 70-135—ending a period of over seventeen hundred years. The Jewish population of Israel peaked at two and one-half million before the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 and the massive slaughter and expulsion of Jews for the Second Dispersion. 15

( There were 5-7 million Jews in the Land according to "Josephus," quoted in Samuel Katz, BATTLEGROUND: FACT AND
     FANTASY IN PALESTINE (New York: Bantam Books, 1973), p.106. According to another source, there were 3 million before A.D. 132-135. Dio Cassius, HISTORY OF THE ROMANS, lxix, 12-14, cited by de Haas, HISTORY, p. 55; see also pp. 52-56; also Theodor Mommsen, PROVINCES OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, I, p. 243. )

Although the expulsions of Jews after A.D. 70 and 135 were massive, devotion to the Land of Israel caused some to linger just
outside the borders, wait for quieter times and keep coming back. One of the so-called Early Church Fathers, Origen, during his stay in the Holy Land from A.D. 231-254, observed that the Jews were still a majority in the Land at that time. After the Roman Empire embraced Christianity in the fourth century, a systematic dispersal of the remaining Jews began. However, between A.D. 614-617, the Jews actually controlled large parts of the Land:20

     Another large-scale uprising [of Jews in Palestine], supported by an invading Persian army, was so successful that for
     three years the Jews seem to have exercised control over large parts of the country including Jerusalem and Tiberias
     (614-617).

(20  ENCYCLOPEDIA JUDAICA (Jerusalem: Encyclopedia Judaica, 1973), p. 872. )

After this interlude of three years, the Persians were defeated and Jerusalem returned to the Byzantine Christians.21

Consequently, the population of the Land was a "quilt" of minorities when the Arabs acquired it in their conquest of Byzantine Syria in A.D. 640. This quilt of people whose Land was dubbed "Palestine" by Imperial Rome was composed of Jews, Samaritans, dissident-Christians and the largest grouping-Syrian Orthodox Christians-none of whom were Arabs.

(21   Abba Eban, MY PEOPLE, p. 123.)

 The historian James Parker wrote:22

     During the first century after the Arab conquest [A.D. 670-740], the caliph and governors of Syria and the Land
     [Palestine] ruled entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the Bedouin in the earliest days, the only
     Arabs west of the Jordan. . .were the garrisons.

In A.D. 985 the Arab writer Muqaddasi complained about the large majority Jewish population in Jerusalem and added, "The mosque is empty of worshippers. . ."23 Although Al-Hakim, Caliph of the Arab Empire (A.D. 996-1021), ordered all non-Moslems in Syria and the area called Palestine to convert to Islam or be expelled, he later rescinded some of the restrictions and so the Arabs remained a minority. The noted Arab historian Dr. Philip Hitti observed that after almost four centuries after the Arab conquest (about A.D. 1070), the Christians (non-Arabs) in Syria, including Palestine, were still fully as numerous as the Moslems and that the Moslems were by no means all Arab.<24">24

The Crusader rule (A.D. 1099-1291) in the Land was followed by the non-Arab Moslem rule of the Mamelukes (A.D. 1291-1517). The Arab historian Hitti observed that there was a large exodus of Arabs during this period.25 The Arab historian Ibu Khaldun wrote in A.D. 1377, "Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel extended over 1400 years. . . . It was the Jews who implanted the culture and customs of the permanent settlement."26 Nearly 300 years after the Arab rule in the Land, the noted Arab historian Khaldun (called one of the greatest historians of all time by Arnold Toynbee) observed that the Land still was permeated with Jewish culture and customs. In A.D. 1400, nearly 300 years after Arab rule, there was still no evidence of Palestinian roots or established culture.

During the period of the Mamelukes as a consequence of the Black Plague, the population of the Land west of the Jordan River dwindled down to 140,000 to 150,000 Moslems, Christians and Jews.27 After the Turkish conquest in 1517 a census for tax purposes tabulated 49,181 heads of families and single men liable to tax. Professor Roberto Bacchi calculated that in the years 1553-1554 there were 205,000 Moslems, Christians and Jews. From his travels in 1785, Francois Comte de Volney's figures would leave less than 200,000 for the total population of the land of Palestine.28 Both Dr. Philip K. Hitti and Alfred Bonni agree that the total population was less than 200,000 in A.D. 1800.<29">29,30 Some estimate the total population of the Land at 150,000 by 1850. This total population would include Jews, Christians and Arabs.

Then Jewish funds started to flow into the Land by 1856 when Sir Moses Montefiore purchased Land outside of Jerusalem to teach agriculture to the Jews in the Land.31 From about 1878, Edmond de Rothschild began to actually finance the establishment of Jewish agricultural colonies. At this time in history, an uninterrupted stream of Jewish funds and Jewish immigration commenced to pour into Palestine. This influx of resources resulted in an economic upswing that attracted Arabs from surrounding countries. Since the Land was at that time under Turkish Moslem rule, Arabs throughout the Middle East had unrestricted access to Palestine. By 1918 the Arab population increased to 560,000.32 In spite of restrictions on Jewish immigration, Jews and Arabs continued to pour into the Land until the birth of the State of Israel in 1948. Clearly, Jewish financial investments and immigration—together with laborious cultivation of the land—had put the Land of Israel on the economic map.

 (22.James Parker, WHOSE LAND? A HISTORY OF THE PEOPLES OF PALESTINE (Harmondsworth, Great Britain: 1970), p. 66.
  23.Erich Kahler cites this statement from KNOWLEDGE OF CRIMES, p.167, in THE JEWS AMONG THE NATIONS (New York:  F. Ungar, 1967), p. 144.
  24.Philip A. Hitti, A SHORT HISTORY OF SYRIA (New York: Macmillan, 1959), p. 170.
  25.Ibid., p. 622.
  26.Yahya Armajami, MIDDLE EAST PAST AND PRESENT (Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1970), p. 143.
  27.Arieh L. Avneri, THE CLAIM OF DISPOSSESSION (New York: Herzl Press, 1982).
  28.Count Constantine F. Volney, TRAVELS THROUGH SYRIA AND EGYPT (New York: E. Duyinck & Co., 1798).
  29.Hitti, HISTORY OF THE ARABS (New York: St. Martin's Press, 1956).
  30.Alfred Bonne, THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF THE NEAR EAST (London: K. Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co., 1945).
  31.David Ben-Gurion, ISRAEL: A PERSONAL HISTORY (New York: Herzl Press, 1972) p. 817.
  32.Sachar, A HISTORY OF ISRAEL.
(from:http://www.bibletoday.com/booklets/peace_text.htm)

[Lent]

. Nor is there any justification for the Israelis having bulldozed in 1948 not only villages that had resisted their massacres, but hundreds of others that did not. READ the evidence. I have said it over and over--you have been fed a tissue of lies that not even knowledgeable Israelis themselves any longer believe

This sentiment I see expressed is completely disengenuous. The Arab Islamics began the war of aggression. They then put their own peoples in harms way. Israel had every right to secure its statehood once the Arab League and the Grand Mufti directed the Arab irregulars and forces to attack the Jews, first after the Nov. 29, 1947 Resolution 181 declaration and then in full force when Israel was declared and recognized as a nation-state. Please direct you false insinuations and non sequiturs to where the blame belongs - the Grand Mufti and the Arab states who attacked Israel.

Moreover, maybe you don't realize this but there were a number of moderate Arabs who considered that partition was the best and only process which could occur in the circumstances. It was the xenophobic Arab nationalists like the Grand Mufti, the Supreme Muslim Council and the Arab Higher Committee which fomented riots not only against the Jews but against moderate Arab voices.

The main clans were the Nashashibi family and the Husaynis. By the end of the 1936-39 riots the Grand Mufti (the Husaynis clan) had virtually silenced any moderate voices in the Mandate, such as the Arab Christians. The following is from , Benny Morris, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem (1947-49):

A further divisive element built into Palestinian society was the Muslim-Christian rift. The Christians, concentrated in the towns and cities, were generally wealthier and better-educated than the Muslims. They prospered under the
Mandate[My emphasis. That is, they were cooperating with the Jews to build a land of prosperity]. The Muslims
throughout the Mandate feared that the Christians would "sell out" to the British (fellow Christians) and/or make
common cause with the Jews (a fellow minority). Indeed, Christians took almost no part in the 1936-9 rebellion [the
rebellion led by the Nazi Grand Mufti]...In 1948, as some Muslims had anticipated, the Christian Arab community
leaders, notably in Haifa and Jaffa, by and large were less belligerent than their Muslim counterparts [in point of fact in the Arab riots in the 20's and 30', all led by the Nazi Mufti, the Arab Christians were themselves attacked and many were forced to convert to Islam, by the Mufti led Islamics].

After the 181 Resolution Date (Nov. 29, 1947), the Jews and some moderate Arabs tried to arrange a peaceful deescalation of the fighting but to no avail of course because of the Mufti and the Arab League:

In this passage Morris correctly points up the attempts by moderates in the Mandate Arabs (few but usually belonging to the minority Nashashibis and Arab Christian leaders who had been largely silenced in the 1936-39 Mufti and majority Husaynis Muslim led riots) and the Haganah to come to a peaceful solution to the Mufti led post Resolution 181 riots (pp. 38-39).

In December 1947 or January 1948, the leaders of these villages [a number of villages he previously notes], and the mukhtars of 'Arab Abu Kishk and Jalil, met with Haganah representatives in the house of Avrahim Schapira in Petah Tikva and expressed a desire for peace. They said that if they could not withstand the irregulars [Arab terrorists organized by the Mufti and the AHC] unaided, they would call on the Haganah for help. These overtures were apparently matched on the Jewish side in January and February by visits by Palmon and Danin to several villages, including Sheikh Muwannis and 'Arab Abu Kishk, where they asked the inhabitants to remain where they were and to accept Jewish protection and rule. 33 Even as late as early May peace overtures of a sort were reportedly made by several Arab villages. Haganah intelligence reported that As Sindiyana, Sabbarin and Al Fureidis, south and southeast of Haifa, were all interested in "surrendering to the Haganah" but none of them was willing to be "the first." The villagers of Al Kheiriya, east of Tel Aviv, who had evacuated the village weeks before, were reported to be interested in returning and "accepting Jewish authority."34
The AHC strongly opposed such local peace initiatives and agreements. The Mufti may at times have wanted a reduction of the scale of the conflict, but he was opposed to anything that resembled peace with or implicit recognition of the Yishuv. The AHC stymied a number of local peace efforts. in mid-January, for example, the British Galilee District Commissioner reported that the Arab leaders of the town of Beisan and the Jewish settlements in the surrounding valley were interested in reaching "an informal agreement of mutual restraint" but the AHC had vetoed the idea. In the Nazareth area and in Acre, the Arab local leaders, the District Commissioner reported, were also interested in some form of cease-fire or curtailment of hostilities.35

The Mufti organized the Arab riots throughout the 20's, 30,'s and 40's. The 1929 Arab riots were particularly vicious resulting in many dead and wounded Jews, desecrations of synagogues, etc.

[Lent]

By the way, in case you also don't know this fact. I've quoted extensively from Benny Morris. Benny Morris is a "New Historian" or anti-Zionist. However, when he stays with the historical record he hits the nail on the head as I've illustrated from the quotes above. It's when he starts playing around with the primary sources that he starts to fabricate as correctly chronicled by Efraim Karsh.

Another point. Morris is not as blatant a fabricator as guys like Israel Shahak, Norman Finklestein, Ilan Pappe, Tom Segev and the other assorted anti-Zionist prevaricators.

[Architect]

You know, I've always been basically neutral/pro-Israel, but the one-sided rants from most of the FR pro-Israel cheerleaders sure make it difficult to maintain that position.

I have always had a neutral/pro-Palestinian bias. Seemed logical. I mean, after the war of independence, it was the Palestinians who wound up in refugee camps. What's up with that??? They are also the ones who had the rest of their land occupied and slowly taken over since 1967. What's up with that too??? Somehow, it didn't seem likely that the Jews were the victims.

It only after actually studying the issue since 9/11 that I have come to learn just how much the Palestinians have been abused and that the real situation was far worse than I had ever imagined. In fact the official Israeli sources and official Palestinian one agree that Israel is stolen land (although they may quibble on the extent of the theft) and that many, if not most, Israeli officials are terrorists.

Utimately, the pro-Israel crowd here has exactly four arguments:
1. The ones who denounce Israel are discredited lefties. They lie.
2. Other people have been evil (some of them Arabs), so Israel is justified is being evil too.
3. Might is right. It was war and we won.
4. It is ordained by God.

None of these arguments is valid. And none of the pro-Israel ranters have ever made any arguments which don't fall into one of these categories. Mostly, they just shout.