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To: Blueflag
"Also, the bolts were STILL IN the attachment points in the empenage, leaving one to infer that the VS indeed did fail above the empennage."

Please elaborate on that statement a little more for us non-engineers. Are you saying that the bolts were still in the vertical stabilizer or in the body of the plane to which the vert. stab. attached? Were the bolts still attached to the nuts (I assume that these bolts were secured by some type of nut). What's an empennage and why is that important?

Thank you in advance for your response.
105 posted on 11/16/2001 1:18:00 PM PST by Iwo Jima
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To: Iwo Jima
see my #106....visualize the tail as flaring at the bottom..fits over the airframe spar..the bolts go in sideways on each side.....they are all intact....it seems to be a failure of the composition material that makes up the tail assembly...
107 posted on 11/16/2001 1:18:02 PM PST by ken5050
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To: Iwo Jima
OK, I'll give it a whirl.

First of all, the empennage is the rear of the airplane -- the tail assembly of an aircraft, including the horizontal and vertical stabilizers, elevators, and rudder. Now for this discussion, since the vertical stabilizer (the tail) detached from the airframe, the empennage is as above, but without the tail. The empennage was found on the ground at the crash site. What I have read tell me that the mounting flanges and bolts and nuts are all still in the empennage, nice and snug, thus the vertical stbilizer 'tore' off above its mounts. FReeper Zordas has info stating the the mounting flanges, nuts, bolts are inside the vertical stabilizer, still attached and snug, and thus the tail tore off inside the empennage. Either way, NO ONE is stating the nuts/bolts/flanges are the problem.

Now, folks are stating that composite materials are at issues, because that is the apparent failure point -- in fact a report from the crach site described the composite material in the empennage as looking like pieces of wheat straw (like the end of a broom) consistent with destructive failure of the material. That report is not (yet) in dispute.

So, what this establishes, so far, is that the vertical stabilizer appears to have separated from the airframe due to a strutural failure, not loose or faulty bolts.

NO RELIABLE source can state what caused the failure. We have enjoyed postulating on this thread. My own personal opinion is that the materials were close to fialure when the plane took off, and the airframe encountered fores that sheared off the tail, cleanly. It could have been wake turbulence. Maybe just the stress of flying was too much.

Once the aircraft lost the stabiliser, the tail, it departed controlled flight and crashed.

Now that you now what the empennage is, I think you can readily infer why it is important. A tall and big tail is important on swept wing jets to counter the effects of differential thrust (engines not pushing equally) and the resulting yaw, and because yaw (nose moving left or right relative to direction of flight) causes one wing to develop more lift than the other, and roll the airplane. The rudder 'straightens' the plane and evens out the roll. The tail is also just like the rudder on a boat. You can sterr an airplane with just the rudder, but that is called "un-coordinated" and can put the aircraft into what is called a skid (just like a car on ice).

Pardon the typos I 'm in a rush. Hope this helps.

108 posted on 11/16/2001 1:18:13 PM PST by Blueflag
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To: Iwo Jima
Also, check out Ken50_50s posts just above this.
109 posted on 11/16/2001 1:18:13 PM PST by Blueflag
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To: Iwo Jima


Investigators look at the destroyed tail fin mounts of American Airlines flight 587 after the tail
section of the plane was loaded aboard a flatbed truck to be taken from the scene of the
airliner's crash in Queens, New York, November 15, 2001. NTSB investigators are examining
the possibility that the tail fin of the plane may have been the first part of the jet to break off in
flight before the crash. REUTERS/Jim Bourg






113 posted on 11/16/2001 1:18:26 PM PST by michigander
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