Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

New Clues Deepen Flight 587 Crash Mystery
Aviation Week (Aviation Now) ^ | 14-Nov-2001 12:56 AM U.S. EST | By Sean Broderick/AviationNow.com

Posted on 11/16/2001 1:10:43 PM PST by vannrox


New Clues Deepen Flight 587 Crash Mystery



As work continued into the night on reading the plane's flight data recorder, investigators late Tuesday revealed several new clues about the crash of American Airlines Flight 587, but the information merely deepened the mystery of what caused the accident.


With both of the Airbus A300-600's engines and its vertical stabilizer coming down before the rest of the airplane, early accident-related speculation was on a catastrophic engine failure that triggered collateral structural damage. But investigators have found nothing that backs such a scenario, and the near-pristine condition of the tail pieces indicates that something besides debris caused them to separate from the plane.


Visual inspection of the plane's two engines showed "no physical evidence" of an engine or fan failure, U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) Investigator-In-Charge George Black told reporters in the first of two briefings held late Tuesday. Black also confirmed what AviationNow.com reported several hours before the briefing: neither of the General Electric CF6-80C2 engines showed evidence of a bird strike.


"We will have to await tear-down to completely analyze the condition of the engines and any part they might have played in the accident," Black cautioned, adding that both engines will go to American's Tulsa, Okla., maintenance base for disassembly.


While an engine failure seems less remote based on the lack of evidence, other facts clearly indicate that something went suddenly and terribly wrong shortly after Flight 587 left Runway 31 Left at John F. Kennedy Airport Monday morning. All 251 passengers and nine crewmembers were killed when the jet plunged into a residential waterside area of Queens, New York.


In perhaps the most perplexing development Tuesday, the A300-600's vertical stabilizer and rudder were pulled from Jamaica Bay -- about a half-mile from the main debris site -- and both pieces "appear to be complete," Black said. Television images of the tail showed no marks, holes, or other structural damage that would indicate that the tail was knocked off by debris -- such as from a disintegrating engine.


Relying on what Black described as a "second quick look" at the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) tape recovered hours after the accident, investigators have determined the first part of the flight was "normal."


About three minutes into the flight -- or 107 seconds after power was applied to start the A300-600's takeoff roll -- an "airframe rattling noise" was captured on the tape, Black said.


Seven seconds later, one of the pilots mentioned a "wake encounter," but there was no further discussion, Black said.


At 121 seconds, a second rattling sound is heard.


Four seconds later, the first officer called for maximum power to the plane's engines. This could indicate several things, such as setting up engine thrust to help steer the plane -- an option to compensate for a lack of rudder control -- or an effort to climb in preparation for an emergency return to JFK.


At 127 seconds, one of the pilots indicated that control of the plane has been lost.


The recording stopped 144 seconds after takeoff power was first applied.


The vertical stabilizer and rudder were pulled from Jamaica Bay Tuesday, and both of them "appear to be complete," Black said. Television images of the tail showed no marks, holes, or other structural damage that would indicate that the tail was knocked off by debris -- such as from a disintegrating engine.


The CVR information alone doesn't reveal when Flight 587 took off or how long it stayed airborne, Black said. The CVR information will be merged with data from the FDR, air traffic control radar tapes, and other sources to develop a detailed look at the plane's flight profile.


The rattling noises captured on the CVR will surely get significant scrutiny from investigators. Black, who was relaying information from other investigators and has not listed to the tape, could not provide details on the noises.


Aside from the two rattling sounds, Black did not indicate that other unusual noises were captured by the CVR. In the past, onboard explosions -- such as what would occur due to an uncontained engine failure, fuel tank ignition, or bomb detonation -- have often been picked up on recorders.


"Not only are words important on a tape, but sounds are important," Black said.


While no sounds pointing to explosions have been picked up from the CVR analysis sessions, Black said investigators noted "noises" on an air traffic control tower tape of communications between controllers and Flight 587. The noises -- which Black did not describe in detail -- were heard at about the time crew lost control. He did not say what the sounds indicated.


Detailed analysis of the tapes and coordinated timeline of the events will help shed more light on how the clues fit together, Black said. Transcription of the CVR is slated to begin Wednesday, with participation of representatives from France's Bureau Enquêtes-Accidents as well as Airbus.


Flight 587 took off about two minutes and twenty seconds behind a Japan Airlines 747-400, Black said. While investigators will examine that fact in connection with the Flight 587 crew's reference to wake turbulence, Black noted that the separation between the two jets exceeded the two-minute requirement.


Evidence from eyewitnesses has provided some insight on Flight 587's final moments, Black said. Members of two airline crews that witnessed at least part of the American Airlines jet's final flight have been interviewed, and each pilot tells roughly the same story, Black said. Each pilot recounted that Flight 587 "wobbled," spiraled out of control, and went down at a severe nose-first angle, Black said.


Black said a construction worker shot video of Flight 587's takeoff roll, but turned his camera away as the A300-600's gear was retracting. Black did not indicate that the tape showed anything amiss with the plane during the departure, but investigators are hoping to talk with witnesses -- including airline crews -- that were on the ground as Flight 587 taxied out and took off.


Investigators have not determined if any debris was on the runway when Flight 587 took off, but Black said the board hopes to have more definitive information in the coming days.


All major parts of the plane have been recovered, Black said. The vertical stabilizer and rudder were pulled from Jamaica Bay. The rest of the plane, including both engines, came to rest on land.


Flight 587 took off to the northwest and investigators believe it completed about half a turn and was heading southeast when it began to break up. Black said the Airbus stopped sending transponder signals at an altitude of about 3,000 feet, indicating that something -- such as a major structural failure -- cut the unit's power. "Primary" target returns -- indicating aircraft or large pieces of debris without working transponders -- began at that point, Black said.


Tracing the plane's assumed flight path, the vertical stabilizer was the first piece of debris found, followed by the rudder about 200 yards further down the flight path. Both pieces were in the water, about half a mile from the main crash crater.


The plane's No. 1 engine ended up in a gas station parking lot about 700 feet from the crater, while the No. 2 engine came down in about 800 feet from the main crater. All of the debris is "more or less in a line," Black said.


A sweep of a 16-block area around the crash site turned up one additional piece of wreckage, and a helicopter flight over the area indicated that no major pieces remained in the shallow bay waters. Divers made 15 trips into the bay Tuesday and found nothing substantial, Black said.


Examination of the wreckage showed that the plane's flaps were retracted, which would be expected during a climb-out. The horizontal stabilizer jackscrew was in the neutral position, while the rudder trim actuator indicated a 10-degrees left displacement.


Black also released information on Flight 587's two pilots. The captain was a 16-year veteran of American and had 8,050 total flight hours, including 1,723 as the left-seat occupant on an Airbus A300-600. The first officer joined American in 1991 and had 4,400 total flight hours, including 1,835 as an A300-600 first officer.


Tuesday's progress meetings, attended by more than 100 investigators, included updates from most of the subgroups tasked with probing specific aspects of the accident. Progress reports from the maintenance, human factors, flight data recorder, and cockpit voice recorder groups are expected in the next day or two.


The maintenance group has been sent to Tulsa to review the A300-600's records, while the two recorder groups were working to extract detailed information from the plane's CVR and FDR.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-52 next last
To: KirklandJunction
Well, I just went to FoxNews.com and they have released a partial list of passengers & crew. They have released 164 or so names.
21 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:01 PM PST by abner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: vannrox
See "Airframe"

How did Michael Crichton know--before ValuJet, before TWA Flight 800--that airline safety would be a hot topic at the end of 1996? But there's more than an amazing instinct for popular taste at work in his latest thriller--destined to be read by hundreds of thousands of those very same airplane passengers it was designed to scare the seatbelts off. Enroute from Hong Kong to Denver, a brand new plane pitches and dives like a porpoise before crashing. The airline's officer in charge of quality assurance--a sharp-eyed, hard-nosed woman named Casey Singleton--has to find out why, before more passengers and the airline's future go into a tailspin. As always in Crichton's expert hands, readers learn a lot about science while lapping up their thrills.

22 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:01 PM PST by John Jamieson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abner
Oops, 163 names.
23 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:01 PM PST by abner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: abner
bttt
24 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:02 PM PST by seeker41
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: bayourod
Why aren't they calling for the inspection of all Airbus-300 tails? Why aren't the airlines doing this themselves?
25 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:12 PM PST by Ross Amann
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: vannrox
Probably totally unrelated but interesting read. Also Airbus has service bulletins about rudder problems on their web site.

This from the NTSB site

NTSB Identification: DCA99IA058 Scheduled 14 CFRPart 121 operation of Air Carrier AMERICAN AIRLINES
Incident occurred Tuesday, May 11, 1999 at MIAMI, FL
Aircraft:Airbus 300-600, registration: N7082A
Injuries: 129 Uninjured.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On Tuesday, May 11, 1999, at 1445 EDT, an American Airlines A300, flight 916, a scheduled passenger service from Bogota, Columbia, to Miami, Florida, landed successfully after the flightcrew experienced multiple rudder deflections that caused the airplane to yaw excessively from side to side while on final approach to runway 9R. There were no reported injuries to the 119 passengers or crew of 10.

Preliminary information from both the American Airlines engineering group and a Safety Board crew interview indicates that during the initial approach to runway 9R, as the crew configured the airplane for landing with flaps 40 degrees and the landing gear down, the airplane began to yaw left and right. The flightcrew stated in an interview that the rudder pedals in the cockpit did not move, though the rudder was deflecting and causing a yaw motion that was sufficient to prompt the captain to abandon the first landing. During the go around, and specifically, as the airplane was reconfigured with the landing gear up and flaps at 20 degrees for the go around, the yaw deviations increased and became extreme. The crew reconfigured the airplane twice during the go around and completed the landing with 20 degrees of flaps.

Initial information from American's FDR readout indicates that the rudder which is a single panel with three hydraulic actuators, deviated continuously but not rhythmically between 5 and 11 degrees each side of center during both approaches. The FDR has been transported to the Safety Board for additional readout.

26 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:13 PM PST by #1CTYankee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: vannrox
Several eye (and ear) witnesses on that day described a "popping" sound as the first event. What can that possibly mean? Is there a "bomb" that does not use ignition that could've set this off? Compressed air?

Help me out here folks...

27 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:13 PM PST by Pharmboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bayourod
"Fat lady in the head?"

ROFLMFAO! Bayourod, you slay me.
28 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:16 PM PST by Iwo Jima
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: vannrox
We seem to be inexorably moving towards only two possible conclusions: either it was sabotage, or else there was a massive maintenance failure. Neither conclusion is likely to encourage more people to go out and buy airline tickets.
29 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:22 PM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bayourod
That kind of thing happens. Its just a natural process called entropy. Order progressing into chaos. As you're flying along the plane comes apart around you. Don't you hate when ever that happens? Its never happened to me, but if it did I know I'd hate that. Its the same thing with cars. You're tooling down the expressway and the car just comes apart. Remember that scene in Blues Brothers when they show up at the tax assessor office and the car just comes apart?

Now here's a really spooky thing to consider. They should examine the watches of any of the passengers to see if theres any evidence of missing time I remember there was one case that FBI special agents Fox Molder and Dana Scully investigated where this proved to be an important clue. They should scan all the seats with Geiger counters too.

30 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:25 PM PST by raygun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Mat_Helm
When the CVR data was released the NTSB announced that the CVR only recorded the last 2+ minutes of the 4+ minute flight. There was no explanantion as to why.
31 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:38 PM PST by Amerigomag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Ross Amann
Why aren't they calling for the inspection of all Airbus-300 tails? Why aren't the airlines doing this themselves

ABC news reported that American IS inspecting all of its A-300 tails. Were I them, I'd inspect all of my Airbus tails, not just the A-300s. Design details tend to run in product lines, if for no other reason that the same people, or at least group leaders, do the designs.

32 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:43 PM PST by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Good question. Also, what do all the references to "I thought it was the Concord" mean?

Do we know if either pilot had military experience? Any significance to the co-pilot being at the controls at take-off?

33 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:44 PM PST by tuesday afternoon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: floriduh voter
This plane began in Boston, the al quaeda headquarters of the U.S.

Do you have an unimpeachable source for this? If so, please provide it. I have seen nothing, and I mean nothing to indicate that this flight originated in Boston.

34 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:45 PM PST by yikes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
From a distance, most any small explosion or detonation sounds like a "pop". Gunfire for example, as any inner city dweller or opening day hunter can attest. However many other things, popping rivets or other fasteners, delaminating composites, or even just metal flexing, can make a popping noise.
35 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:57 PM PST by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: El Gato
Well, I'm a hunter and I think I can separate popping from gunfire...but at that distance and in the air, perhaps you're right. I guess a small bomb could make what might be thought of as a "pop."

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

36 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:58 PM PST by Pharmboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Several eye (and ear) witnesses on that day described a "popping" sound as the first event. What can that possibly mean? Is there a "bomb" that does not use ignition that could've set this off? Compressed air?

Even just the tail snapping off due to metal fatigue or whatever would probably make a hell of a "popping" noise.

I saw an awesome video once -- Boeing wanted to find the stress limits for the wings of the newly-built 747, so they strapped one down and applied industrial-strength jacks to the wingtip and started cranking it up. When it finally snapped, you'd have thought a bomb had gone off -- metal debris flying everywhere, and a huge "boom".

37 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:58 PM PST by Dan Day
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: vannrox
How does this "engine hitting the tail" persist? The tail landed far earlier than either enging. I dont think the engines fell off and then turned around and flew on eastward.
38 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:59 PM PST by Straight Vermonter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tuesday afternoon
Don't know the military experience, but the copilot was from the town in Conn. next door to where I grew up (totally irrelevant detail). It is common for the pilot and co-pilot to trade off the takeoffs and landings.
39 posted on 11/16/2001 1:11:59 PM PST by bootless
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: vannrox
At 127 seconds, one of the pilots indicated that control of the plane has been lost.

This must be the classic line "oh schitzski". Don't tell the tinfoil hat crowd, they would consider these printable comments as lying. LOL

40 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:00 PM PST by VRWC For Truth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-52 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson