Does Crash Of Amrican Airlines Flight Signal End Of Rational Thought Process in U.S.?

MB26/FR/News Reports | MB26

[MindBender26]

It's not the specualtion I worry about, just as I don't worry about opinion being expressed on TV by anchors. Just call it opinion or specualtion. Not fact.

Problem is the echo effect ref. elsewhere here.

Writer creates story (for example ) "AA crash could be linked to dynamite missing from Miami construction site." Is that the truth. Of course it is. In fact, the crash could be linked to my Aunt Tillie's garter belt. The opertive word is COULD.

Soon, some poster is replacing COULD BE with IS. Within minutes, another poster is repeating it. Soon, another poster is speculating that FBI, FDLE, NTSB and others are covering up terrorist link to crash, and we are off on another cycle of rumors pretending to be fact.

Specualtion is fine, as long as it is cleraly identified as such.... and the reader has the brains to understand thatis simply guesses and rumors comming from someone who might be typing in the Rubber Room at the State Home for the Bewildered! :~)

It's like so-called "health food" claims. CAN help cure cancer. ASSISTS in lowering blood pressure. Proven effective in clinical research to WORK WONDERS in the fight against fat..... If you want to see this done at its best, go to an MLM meeting!

It can all be BS is the wording is right.

[Citizen Tom Paine]

Tend to strongly agree. Be quick to listen, and slow to speak. If one has nothing to say, say nothing.

[MarkWar]

>Your comments are welcome, as long as they do not blame AA crash or 9/11 on the Hale-Bopp comet..... :~)

Hale-Bopp? That would be silly...

It's clear that 587 was taken down by an early Leonid meteor.

More seriously, I think it's mean spirited to pick on "conspiracy types" for the end of rational thought. Conspiracy people _like_ thinking. Conspiracy people are bored and put off by the media & Establishment constant stance of "Turn off your mind and let an 'expert' tell YOU what you think..." Conspiracy people, rather, should be praised for keeping the art of thought alive and dynamic in a world of sherpas and gate keepers.

And, when a country is at war, then it is downright rational to look at the deaths of 260 people and _presume_ it was an attack until the evidence persuades you otherwise. (If the current media had been around in 1941, they'd have been falling all over themselves to CONSTANTLY point out that JUST BECAUSE _SOMEBODY_ attacked Pearl Harbor there is NO EVIDENCE to link it to the on-going British/German conflict over in Europe...)

Mark W.

[Dave S]

Yea, how gullible do they think we are?

Apparently pretty, as you supply a photo of a plane totally unrelated to what we are talking about. If Im not mistaken this was a Continental or Pan Am flight to Hawaii which was in fact hit by a bomb.

Cars just dont fall apart either but over the millions of miles driven each year you can find many examples of where it does happen.

[Positive]

"At least eleven mutually exclusive theories as to cause of this week’s accident have been proposed..."

Your beginning to paragraph four reveal that you don't apply the same standards to your post as you do to those of the rest of the Freepers'.

Apparently you've already concluded that 587 was obviously an accident.

Why don't you present your argument for that conclusion?

[Loopy]

Sorry bout the misspellings, I'm trying to participate in this discussion and do paperwork at the same time.

[richwolo]

There is a certain suspension of rational thought process going on here. People are making, defending and angrily supporting crash theories based on some rumor someone else says a friend told them was heard on the radio

Before I comment on my italicized text, I wish to compliment you on your eloquently stated thesis on a very complicated sociological phenomenon that occurs countless times daily on the Free Republic Forum. The insight on the anonymous psyche of "Freepers" could never be gotten in any classroom or textbook, at any seminar or think tank, or from any other vehicle other then what JR has very wisely crafted. Cheers for Jim!!!

Now, to go on with the subject in hand. The irrationality of certain posters whom you refer to very kindly, is yet another example of how democracy works; and why it works. As disturbing as those posters may be to me and many others, (And I always considered myself to be conservative till I got on this board) they are a neccesary ingredient in American democracy. Necessary only so long as they do not exercise their zealousness in other more destructive ways. I'm afraid however, that the anonymity of this board allows a certain small of them, to refuel.

[japaneseghost]

We don't know what caused the crash, but we do know:

1. That FL800 was not an accident;

2. There's no way the government could tell within a half hour that 587 was an accident; and

3. BOTH engines, in proper working condition, just fell off, along with the whole intact tail.

[Fury]

That's an Aloha Airlines B737 from which a large section of the fuselage separated during flight, causing a flight attendant to fall to her death. It was determined that the high-time 737 had multiple stress fractures in the skin and, if I remember correctly, all 737's were summarily inspected.

Worked with someone who was a passenger on that flight. One scary mishap.

[Solson]

Show me where the NTSB is heading this investigation? The FBI was on the scene immediately and continues to be.

[MindBender26]

So far, from what I've heard, it sounds like some kind of sabotage. Am I correct in thinking you'll be parroting whatever is eventually released on NTSB letterhead?

Absolutely not. I am saying that, at this point there is nowhere enough information to make any conclusion, initial or final as to the cause. The less valid information people have here, the more likely they seem to be in making a call without any real knowledge. Rumors are not knowledge.

Also distrust anyone who asks questions with an obvious bias going in, such as "parroting whatever is eventually released."

[wysiwyg]

Apparently pretty, as you supply a photo of a plane totally unrelated to what we are talking about. If Im not mistaken this was a Continental or Pan Am flight to Hawaii which was in fact hit by a bomb.

You are mistaken. Please see #40. No bomb.

[Kevin Curry]

There is a certain suspension of rational thought process going on here.

It's called wide-open, free-flowing discussion in celebration of the First Amendment, and it is what makes FR such an appealing place to visit. Most of us have no problem separating the silver from the dross, and sometimes what appears to be dross just needs a buff-up to show the thread of silver in it.

In a business setting such no-holds-barred discussion is called brainstorming and is a valued problem-solving technique.

Frankly, I'm more disturbed by posters who try to trap the debate and keep it caged within what they a "rational" set of parameters. Lighten up. Loosen your tie and let blood flow to the brain.

[Jim Scott]

Your post #18 makes a good point.
This is the internet and the fact that we're all virtually anonymous enables the crazies and encourages people to post statements they would never, ever actually say out loud in public or to anyone's face.
That's understood.

I believe the problem for both government and FReepers in this situation is not having the humility to simply say; "I don't know". The government wants to look capable and in charge and most FReepers want to appear to be smarter than the next guy and too sharp to be fooled by anyone, especially government hacks pulling snow jobs.

I find that when you sort through the long threads you'll always find some useful information, some nonsense and a lot of guesses and wild speculation. It's all good but the posters that name-call and rant when challenged on some unprovable assumption with no real basis in fact are what MB26 alludes to and he has a good point. Rational discussion isn't possible with folks who accuse you of being a government lackey/fool simply because you disagree with them or submit that the government may be telling the truth at some point. It's annoying and the suspension of rationality in some threads gives one pause but when that happens I just sigh and remind myself, "it's the internet".

[KelleyO]

Fox News just reported that the data flight recorder is "too damaged" to retrieve info from at this time and will have to be "sent back to the manufacturer." The rotten coverage by the media, of which i am a member, is convincing me there is massive spin going on. I am not reacting from "rumors", rather the painstaking responsibility of having watch the national news reporting all day, and on the most part, all night. It appears all of the media voices (i.e. conservative/libertarian) that one could usually count on to see through a spin of this magnitude, have been unusually quiet and dimissive of this story. Example, the female anchor on Fox just an hour ago called the crash a "distraction" from the news in Afghanistan. If this is in any way a coverup in order to encourage people to fly and therefore keep the airline industry afloat, I will puke. But that's what it it's starting to sound like hearing Giuliani and Pataki all but hysterically chiming at every opportunity "come to New York" it's so safe, so fun, so unaffected by terrorism! And, "it could have been worse" and my personal fave, "those people in Rockaway must be relieved to hear it wasn't terrorism"! I am actually relieved to read here that folks are actually questioning the reporting of this tragedy. to write it off as paranoid ramblings of irrational thought is irresponsible at best, comlicit at worst

[mbb bill]

Congress will consider gun control??

[discostu]

Nope, the simplest explanation is still that something else broke. Planes of lots of parts, if the wrong one breaks at the wrong time planes will disintigrate in midair (things that hold the wings on are the next big spot the NTSB checks). Because that doesn't involve a conspirator (which are, of course rather not simple) mechanical failure is still the simplest explanation.

But again, we have to remember these things work just like fire investigations, unless one of the black boxes gives a clear clue (like the pilot exclaiming about somebody with a bomb) you proceed with no pre-suppositions, find the part that broke first, then figure out how it broke, then you've got your base answer: deliberate or accident. If the former you call in the FBI and have them start their thing. And we really need to remember that this takes time, lots of time, it's rare for the NTSB to have answers in less than a month. Planes are big and complicated and crash scenes are a mess, you don't figure out why you have wreckage scatter over a couple of square miles overnight, just doesn't happen.

[jern]

Great post. What bothers me is that their seems a certain fragment of this board who gets excited when events like this happen so they can rail against the govt.

[Gumlegs]

Is there any evidence that there was ever a rational thought process in the U.S.?

[richwolo]

Please excuse my ommision of a word in post 47. The last line should read: "I'm afraid however, that the anonymity of this board allows a certain small amount of them, to refuel."