Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The War is a Trap
Antiwar.com ^ | 11/12/01 | Justin Raimondo

Posted on 11/12/2001 2:06:17 AM PST by Ada Coddington

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-83 next last
To: Zviadist
Several commanders that were formerly under the leadership of the Pashtun leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, now hold high positions in the NA military leadership.

In addition, many of the Pashtun commanders in southern Afghanistan have distanced themselves from the Taliban and have expressed their willingness to join the Northern Alliance in forming an Afghanistan Loya Jirga to run the country after the demise of the Taliban is complete.

Things seem to be progressing along those lines, as well as can be expected after only a month or so of fighting.

Of course the whole thing could fall into the shitcan, but such is war.

21 posted on 11/12/2001 10:25:25 AM PST by dead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: dead
Interesting. I still don't see it falling into place the way I have seen it explained by think tankers and Congressional hearings: a "peace process" brokered by the king, but with no real power for the king. I have heard that this "Rome process" is dead, dead.
22 posted on 11/12/2001 10:28:05 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Zviadist
I still don't see it falling into place the way I have seen it explained by think tankers and Congressional hearings: a "peace process" brokered by the king, but with no real power for the king.

Part of the problem is that Afghanistan has always been a country in name only - it makes the Balkans look like Kubaya country in comparison. IMO so far the United States has played this smart - weaken the Taliban, alter the political balance in the region, let some of the tribal players do the dirty work, and avoid large numbers of foreign ground troops - a factor that tends to united the different factions in Afghanistan. It requires a lot more finesse than just going in Soviet (or British) style with a large army to try and teach the tribes a lesson - but we've seen that the big-army approach generally doesn't work very well. Since bin Laden and most of Al Quida are foreigners, many warlords won't have a qualm about turning him over if they think they'll live to enjoy the bounty money - and if the Taliban is out of the picture, that becomes possible. You may consider that cynical, but that's basically the ground truth here - the United States has a mortal enemy holed up in Afghanistan, and we need to get to him and kill him. This isn't Kosovo, where the United States had no compelling national interest and no business in that region...

23 posted on 11/12/2001 10:35:41 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
I take it you have not yet heard the talk on Capitol Hill of a "massive Marshal Plan" for Afghanistan? In the words of one Congressman, "just tell us how much is needed." Message: bomb our country and we will rebuild yours! Gotta love it. The only solution to too much intervention is...more interventionism!
24 posted on 11/12/2001 10:43:00 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Zviadist
The only solution to too much intervention is...more interventionism!

Well, the Marshall Plan was highly effective in rebuilding Europe and Japan after WWII. And once again, this isn't like Kosovo and FRY, where there were many tempting targets for economic assimilation into the West - there isn't much in Afghanistan to venture the Soros' of the world - Marshall-Plan type programs probably work best when a country is completely destitute, a description that fits Afghanistan to a "T".

25 posted on 11/12/2001 10:47:32 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Ada Coddington
Two months into the war, and the Americans were hard-pressed to point to a single success, never mind the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel.

Justin, it must really suck when you write a column and it's OTBE'd by the time it gets posted on the Antiwar website. And you really should get off the demand for instant gratification while you're at it.

26 posted on 11/12/2001 10:48:47 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ada Coddington
The rest of world had better wake up. Either we win or we take everybody else down with us. If those cowards in Europe don`t like what we are doing, that is just to bad.
27 posted on 11/12/2001 10:48:50 AM PST by vladog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Justin Raimondo
You better cut some holes in that sheet before you try, bud.

Huh? What sheet? Try what?

Hung with a new rope?

That's an expression, old bean. A colorful turn of phrase. Along the lines of, 'is the Pope Catholic?'

I'll translate: your missives seem generally unhappy with everything; you come across as rather testy.

28 posted on 11/12/2001 10:49:27 AM PST by Mr. Thorne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Ada Coddington
You still running around demanding proof of bin Laden's guilt, or has his confession eliminated that red herring from your arsenal of BS?
29 posted on 11/12/2001 10:51:15 AM PST by borkrules
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy

Marshall-Plan type programs probably work best when a country is completely destitute, a description that fits Afghanistan to a "T".

How can you possibly say that, when the Marshal Plan targeted some of the most industrially-developed countries on earth at the time? Besides, most of the Marshal Plan was a political "denazification" plan, not the the physical rebuilding that most mistake it for. The Euros rebuilt their own continent for the most part after the war.

This wonderful new "Marshal plan" for Afghanistan will in the main go to bribe politicians and to pay high-priced American consultants. That has been the story of our aid to foreign countries and I have seen little to convince me that anything has changed.

30 posted on 11/12/2001 10:54:30 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Ada Coddington
More of the same old antiwar.com bovine excrement:

31 posted on 11/12/2001 11:01:13 AM PST by mountaineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zviadist
We are seeing, partly due to the astonishing provincialism of the American foreign policy establishment, partly due to the usual high-paid foreign lobbyists, partly due to lack of creativity, a replay of Bosnia, Kosovo and other similar interventions.

The difference being we actually have a good reason for killing people in Afganistan. Retaliation for 911 is provincialism?

32 posted on 11/12/2001 11:05:41 AM PST by Liberal Classic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Zviadist
Absolutely spot on! You beat me to it; I was going to comment on that misunderstanding. The whole point about the economic Marshall plan in Western Europe was to go back to normal as quickly as possible, i.e. capitalism, industrialism and international trade. It was a useful kick-start but the real work was of course done by the West-European nations themselves. As far as I know, the Afghani's are not known for international derivative trading or producing the latest pocket-size DVD-player, or whatever.
33 posted on 11/12/2001 11:08:12 AM PST by NewAmsterdam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: ThanksBTTT; Zviadist; NewAmsterdam

34 posted on 11/12/2001 11:10:52 AM PST by Askel5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: NewAmsterdam

Absolutely spot on! You beat me to it; I was going to comment on that misunderstanding.

That's so funny: I was going to flag you on it for some back-up, because I knew I would be challenged on this. Historical revisionists love to point to the Marshal Plan as "we built Europe back from scratch." Not true from what I have read (and the knowledgable people I have spoken with).

35 posted on 11/12/2001 11:10:58 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: zarf
Justin Raimondo = COWARD! Chicken S*I*!
36 posted on 11/12/2001 11:11:13 AM PST by RetiredArmy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Zviadist
How can you possibly say that, when the Marshal Plan targeted some of the most industrially-developed countries on earth at the time?

By the time we were done bombing Japan and Europe, there wasn't much left of their industrial development. I have mixed feelings about an Afghani version of the Marshall Plan - but not because of the ability of America to carry out such a program, but because of my concerns about the willingness of the Afghani tribes to adapt to such a program. Pundits talk about twenty years of war in Afghanistan, but war has been part of Afghanistan since time immemorial. It's just a matter of who they're shooting at - outsiders or each other - and any economic development aid, under those circumstances, will accomplish little...

37 posted on 11/12/2001 11:11:33 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Ratatoskr
Possibly Justin Raimondo's mom.

She probably doesn't care either.

38 posted on 11/12/2001 11:13:48 AM PST by Mark17
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy

Pundits talk about twenty years of war in Afghanistan, but war has been part of Afghanistan since time immemorial. It's just a matter of who they're shooting at - outsiders or each other - and any economic development aid, under those circumstances, will accomplish little...

What better argument can be made for getting in, getting the guys who bombed us, and then getting the hell out?

39 posted on 11/12/2001 11:14:39 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Ada Coddington
Ms. Coddington,

Of late you have been posting the most anti-war propoganda it has ever been my experience to have read. Do these articles reflect your particular mindset, or are you presenting these horrific "chicken little" tales in an effort to hold them up to the light of ridicule?

Your most humble and obedient,
Junior

40 posted on 11/12/2001 11:15:04 AM PST by Junior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-83 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson