[Travis McGee]

Why is it that moslem societies that are the most secular, paying bare lip service to islam and letting each person practice it (or not) in their own way are the most free? Turkey springs to mind.

Why is it that moslem societies that are the most religious, banning all books except the koran, teaching children to memorize the entire koran by rote memorization over and over many hours a day, are the most unfree and cruel?

It seems that the "more moslem" a society is, the more intolerant and vicious it becomes.

Can you explain this?

[bluester]

What you meant was the more fundamental the followers of a religion are, the more intolerant and vicious towards other they are. That's true. But that is not only in Islam. You have Christian fundamentalists that see no problem in killing doctors performing abortion, Jewish fundamentalists that that can't tolerate non-Jews among them. And I could find cases in other religions as well.

But those people do not represent the religion as a whole,not all people of that same religion agree with them, far from it. That's why I don't make generalized judgements because of SOME people and their actions. Of course I can agree that there's more of it in Islam, for numerous reasons (historical), and to some of them the west has contributed itself. Being a bit self-critical can be good as well sometimes, even in such times. It's not all black-white as some would like to see it. It never is.

[a_Turk]

It seems that the "more moslem" a society is, the more intolerant and vicious it becomes.

Can you explain this?

Well, absolute power corrupts absolutely.. Any government which holds the key to both religious and civil governance will lose its measure. Think back to the history lessons on mideival Europe, where the excesses of the papacy were horrendous. How tolerant were Ferdinand and Isabella during their "Spanish Inquisition?"

It's a no brainer. Church and state must be seperate, and good, honest education must be very high on any agenda.

What's to say that a nation of mostly ignorants will beget a responsible, upright, and caring leader? We're at the mercy of the devil there my friend!