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To: jrherreid
I haven't read Lord of the Rings. I'm just beginning it. But someone here who's read the Silmarillion stated that Gandalf is supposed to be from a caste something akin to angels. I've also heard that any kind of typically occultic practices are presented as being evil.

Anyway, assuming there is no difference in kind (which I doubt), at the very least there is a vast difference in degree. The Potter books are saturated with occult practices, performed by witches and wizards.

Perhaps Snow White and Cinderella can serve as a parallel. In Snow White the witch practices spell-casting and makes potions and she is depicted as completely evil.

In Cinderella, the fairy godmother works "magic" for Cinderella. But the use of magic in the two books is diametrically opposed. In Cinderella, the fairy godmother appears out of thin air at her own volition. She is not "conjured" by Cinderella. It would be very easy to construe her as Cinderella's guardian angel.

Therefore, I have no problem with the representation of witches or "magic" in either Snow White or Cinderella.

Additionally, my position is very much like O'Brien's, particularly the parts I've highlighted above.

Few people notice that the story begins in the "real world" and moves on to another equally "real world." This worldview is emphatically gnostic, as O'Brien states. Importantly, as O'Brien also notes, the hero Harry violates the moral codes in both.

15 posted on 11/09/2001 10:09:46 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
Few people notice that the story begins in the "real world" and moves on to another equally "real world." This worldview is emphatically gnostic, as O'Brien states. Importantly, as O'Brien also notes, the hero Harry violates the moral codes in both.

But this happens in many fantasy novels--does that mean that they all are gnostic? The children in the Narnia series go back and forth from the fantasy world of Narnia and modern England. Edward Eager's delightful children's books have kids stepping out of Baltimore and into King Arthur's England. It isn't something exclusive to Harry Potter.

17 posted on 11/09/2001 10:27:15 AM PST by jrherreid
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To: Aquinasfan
I haven't read Lord of the Rings. I'm just beginning it. ... I've also heard that any kind of typically occultic practices are presented as being evil.

Most are--but some are not, such as the prophetic Mirror of Galadriel. The hobbits gaze into it to see the future. Sam sees the destruction of the Shire, and Frodo sees Sauron, but the mirror isn't seen as being an evil power, merely a neutral one.

18 posted on 11/09/2001 10:30:25 AM PST by jrherreid
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To: Aquinasfan
You only seem to know the Disneyfied Cindrella. Ther are well over 500 different bersions of this story. Almost EVERY culture, all over the world, and throughout ever period of time, this story in one version or another, has been told or read.

In most versions, Cinderella cries on the grave of her mother; it is her tears and prayers ( spell, conjuring , raising the spirit of the dead ? ) whih unleashes the MAGIC. In the Korean version, Tocabbies ( tiny, naked, mischievious sprits ) perform the " magic ". Then, there is the stepsisters ' sef mutilataions, in order that they each can fit the shoe / slipper , but their own drops of blood speak, as it falls to the ground , frorm the bloodyd shoe, and tells the prince that each girl is an imposter.

What about Sleeping Beauty ? This story and Cinderella are direct descendents, split in twian, of the Greek & Roman myths : Cupid and Psyche . Beauty's kiss ( just as in The Princess and The Frog and The Swineherd ) is MAGIC, and far from Christian. There are many magical eliments in MOST fairy tales, from ALL countries, cultures, and eras. They've NOT turned centeuries of children int " pagans" .

The posted info, that supposedly it has ONLY been in the last 100 + years that witches were portrayed as okay, in stories, is NOT factual at all ! The French, Medeival chansones about Meleissand portray her as a beautiful, loving , unfortunate shape shifter. The old Scotch ballads, about " Sulkies " sosmetimes portray them as good, and someimes as bad ; it justs depeeds upon which story you read. No, WHEN they were popular has little to do with which is good and which is bad.

A lot of this propaganda and hysteria, has MORE to do with paranoia and a shocking lack of knowledge, than anything else. Flagrant disregard about the sorts of stories children have been told / read to, from millenia to the present, and what effect it has had on them, is what allows the hystereic, gullible, fanatic to make ridiculous claims.

90 posted on 11/09/2001 6:38:31 PM PST by nopardons
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