Posted on 11/07/2001 10:37:51 PM PST by TaZ
"So now that he's dead why don't you all stop twisting the knife in the poor soldier's back?"
Firstly, I really don't want you to think I'm making any more dog gone infernal inferences, but my conclusions and opinions were not derived from thin air.
So with that said, I'll say this. The reason that I posted this topic is because the death of William Cooper shouldn't be looked upon in any way that empowers his martydom. It must be discussed and the truth be shown to bear, because people in DC are going to start saying things like these "William Cooper" types when they are referring to right-wing nutballs, and I want all concerned Patriotic Americans to have their facts straight.
"This DOES NOT NULLIFY all the good work that Cooper did in the Patriot movement, on the 16th Amendment...."Secondly, I hate to tell you this, but the abhorant way William Cooper acted in his final days will absolutely abolish and shred William Cooper's veracity in regards to the Patriot Movement and repealing the 16th Amendment. He has become an anathema that will make it more difficult for Real Constitutional Patriots to be taken seriously.
I can just hear those Liberals who run the Senate now, "It is those Right-Wing Para-Military William Cooper types that are against abolishing the Second Amendment, not the true law abiding people who love this country."
A few years ago, a friend of mine named Bill Brumbaugh gave me a video tape of the Militia representatives from around the Country being interviewed by a Special Senate Committee right after the Murrah Bldg. in OKC getting bombed. The utter contempt that the entire panel of Senators had for these American Patriots was amazing....it would be similar to terrorists being marched before the Senate right now and questioned. I could just imagine what Hillary would do with the mud that William Cooper has given them to throw at us.
Remember, we have to fight this battle in the Court of public opinion, for no other arena can give us victory but that.
On the first point, a counterexample is one of a security guard who doesn't own the property he is protecting,.. who still has authority to escort a person displaying disregard for the property off the premises. A similar case might be made regarding public land. An interest might still be held by a neighbor greater than that of a foreign party. Granted, as a general common law rule of thumb, the burden of proof might fall on the party exercising increased authority on the other. As would be the case in a citizen's arrest.
I agree that one does not have the right to resist lawful arrest. Of course, if one is being pursued by persons attempting an unlawful arrest, then one might very well have a right to defend themselves.
At present we have the testimony of those with a conflict of interest over the position of the dead man. If one appeals to their credibility as LEOs it might also be the case that the credibile LEO was killed by those not so credible so as to cover their tracks.
"Secondly, I hate to tell you this, but the abhorant way William Cooper acted in his final days will absolutely abolish and shred William Cooper's veracity in regards to the Patriot Movement and repealing the 16th Amendment."
Bill Cooper cracked up. The fact that he lost it in the end does nothing to diminish the huge volume of factual information that he presented before then except in the minds of people ruled by emotion - who are useless unless you want to get into the business of manipulating the emotions of the masses. While that's an effective technique of getting what you want, the "patriot" community and pro 2nd people haven't figured that out yet so they can continue to preach to the choir that Bill Cooper helped get started.
He has become an anathema that will make it more difficult for Real Constitutional Patriots to be taken seriously.
With all due respect, that's a pretty candy-assed, arm-chair quarterback statement coming from anybody that hasn't walked in Cooper's shadow, much less his shoes.
I can just hear those Liberals who run the Senate now, "It is those Right-Wing Para-Military William Cooper types that are against abolishing the Second Amendment, not the true law abiding people who love this country."
If you honestly think that you're going to change the minds of the the vast majority of dimwits, parasites, and NWO brown-nosers currently in the senate (or the house for that matter) and their lackeys in the Propaganda Ministry who together define the public's reality ------->no matter what you say or stick under their noses<--------, you're in for a rude awakening. Until there's a wholesale house cleaning, "Real Constitutional Patriots" had better get used to "whistling Dixie."
A few years ago, a friend of mine named Bill Brumbaugh gave me a video tape of the Militia representatives from around the Country being interviewed by a Special Senate Committee right after the Murrah Bldg. in OKC getting bombed. The utter contempt that the entire panel of Senators had for these American Patriots was amazing....it would be similar to terrorists being marched before the Senate right now and questioned. I could just imagine what Hillary would do with the mud that William Cooper has given them to throw at us.
And exactly what did you expect from a bunch of dimwits, parasites, and NWO sycophants? Raising the specter of the chorus of liberal "I told ya so's" presumes that Bill Cooper deliberately went insane! You're not trying to make that case are you? If not, say the whole affair was unfortunate, put a lid on it, and leave Cooper alone.
Remember, we have to fight this battle in the Court of public opinion, for no other arena can give us victory but that.
Remember that this is the same thing the NRA preaches and all they do is LOSE. "Public opinion" is what politicians and the Propaganda Ministry make it. "Real Constitutional Patriots" had better wake up and figure out that they're in a street fight and that you don't fight a street fight under Robert's Rules of Order. If public opinion is what they're after, until they decide that the bribery/blackmail of spineless politicians and the emotional manipulation of public opinion (the political equivalents of a broken bottle in the alley street fight - and the tools of their opposition - duhhhhhhh) is more effective than facts, they're going to get really good at whistling Dixie. Also remember that during the American Revolution only 5% were active participants - everybody else stood around and watched.
"More police and law enforcement is also good."
You are saying that law enforcement and all its associated agencies from local to federal do not have enough resources or influence to do their job? You have got to be kidding. You people are going to push us off the cliff.
With all due respect, that's a pretty candy-assed, arm-chair quarterback statement coming from anybody that hasn't walked in Cooper's shadow, much less his shoes.
Hmmm....nice full frontal attack, but I'm not interested in walking in Cooper's shadow, I'm not one of those in the shadows kind of guys. You have no idea who I am, or what I have done to attempt to educate people regarding adhering to the Constitutional concepts.
It would appear that you are here to protect your Martyr and to spread you paranoid fantasy that an armed revolt against the NWO is inevitable.
Well, I wish you luck and don't forget your tinfoil hat. JFYI, Dixie was played at Lincoln's Inauguration too.
You're absolutely right about that, I don't know what you've done. I do know what Cooper has done. And nobody said you should walk in anybody's shadow. I just don't think it's a good idea to criticize Cooper for the work he did before he went berserk when you aren't pointing to what you've done that is better. If it's as good or better than Cooper's, I'd be happy to review it.
It would appear that you are here to protect your Martyr and to spread you paranoid fantasy that an armed revolt against the NWO is inevitable.
Excuse me? Did anything I said indicate that I consider him a martyr? Didn't I just say in post #28 that he was responsible for his own demise? Did I say anywhere that I approved of what brought the police to his house in the first place? Did I say anywhere that I approved of his shooting that deputy? As a matter of fact, I didn't just link to Jones' interviews, I ran excerpts of Jones' interview with Jacobs and the other guy the very next day, almost in their entirety (minus Jones' pathetic grasping for a non-existent conspiracy), for a full 14 minutes as the first order of business on my last radio show just so there wouldn't be any confusion about what happened and precisely who was responsible.
What I did say is that he was out there long before a lot of other people, and that he did a lot of good work before he went insane.
Furthermore, I pointed out exactly what I think is necessary to avoid the "fantasy" that you seem bent on laying on anyone that doesn't agree with you on Cooper's work and that opinion is based on 35 years of watching the Constitution go down the drain bit by bit and without fail. The NRA and others who employ the "I'm armed with the facts!" fighting technique against an opposition using an appeal to emotion have done nothing but consistently LOSE. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that when you try the same approach for decades and it still hasn't worked, you ought to try what the opposition has been winning with. If the majority of the public gave a fat rat's a$$ about the facts, there wouldn't be such a thing as The Big Lie. Education is all well and good but now it's time for results - and results to me means there is no chance of that "fantasy" coming true. If anybody is going to be responsible for enhancing the appearance of the inevitability of that "fantasy" that you seem to like to project upon people, it's going to be those that refuse to learn from decades of getting beaten to the punch and who think they're going to recover "in the court of public opinion" by saying (with earnest conviction, of course) "I can prove I'm not the child molester they say I am with the facts!"
Well, I wish you luck and don't forget your tinfoil hat. JFYI, Dixie was played at Lincoln's Inauguration too.
Hauling out the "tinfoil" is a discredited debating technique that doesn't merit further response except to say that the statement would have been more effective as an appeal to an emotional response if written as:
"Hauling out the 'tinfoil' is a discredited debating technique usually employed by the likes of Hillary Clinton (or Diane Feinstein, or Chuckie Schumer, or Al Sharpton, or...) et al."
;-)
Remember that this is the same thing the NRA preaches and all they do is LOSE. "Public opinion" is what politicians and the Propaganda Ministry make it. "Real Constitutional Patriots" had better wake up and figure out that they're in a street fight and that you don't fight a street fight under Robert's Rules of Order.....Also remember that during the American Revolution only 5% were active participants - everybody else stood around and watched.
OK, I must admit, I usually don't use the Tin-foil hat comments, actually this was the first time ever! Please excuse me if I am coming to erroneous conclusions from the info that you posted, but it appears that you, like Bill Cooper, are advocating some kind of Guerilla Resistance against what you perceive as the enemy. Thoughts like these IMHO are right up there with people who go around saying that they were abducted by Aliens.
An armed revolt was once tried before between 1860-1865 and they whistled Dixie too. If you really think that any Group of Patriots could pull off a revolt that would be half as successful as the last catastrophic outing, you Sir should seek professional help. I am quite aware of the power that the US Gov't. possesses and once awoken it is devastating to whole standing armies. Here in the USA, you would have to be crazy to think that anything could be accomplished with Armed Rebels. Ask Bill Cooper next time you see him.
Uh,here's a no brainer for rational folks. Call me on the phone and tell me to come in and bond out??????
As you put it, a no-brainer for rational folks. However, Mr. Cooper was, apparently, not quite rational. The sheriff's department apparently attempted to serve the warrant in a conventional manner (deputy approaching the property and presenting the warrant in daylight) TWICE and were threatened by Mr. Cooper from a position of concealment. If Mr. Cooper was willing to shoot at a man clearly identified as a sheriff's deputy in broad daylight, how likely was Mr. Cooper to take action on a phone call?
I cannot presume to equate with Mr. Cooper's situation, but a reasonable rational person, with a clear understanding of his rights, would call his lawyer and go see the sheriff!
Unfortunately, saying "William Milton Cooper" and "a reasonable rational person" in the same breath, with a straight face, is well-nigh impossible.
Also, I have NEVER heard of a sheriff calling someone on the phone and begging them to please come down and set for a spell when the subject was a felony warrant.
Also, I have NEVER heard of a sheriff calling someone on the phone and begging them to please come down and set for a spell when the subject was a felony warrant.Must be a small community thing. Happens frequently around here. Also the calling of friends and relatives to pass the word. Community ties and reputation determine whether this is an option for the sheriffs deputies.192 posted on 11/12/01 5:11 AM Pacific by Poohbah
I didn't catch the fact that deputies had attempted to serve him in daylight. Better Cooper dead than the LEOs just trying to do the job and being killed for their efforts. Cooper made his bed.
My attitude is that citizens should feel protected by a gun wearing Patriot, they should not feel threatened. That is why Cooper's work is meaningless in light of his last acts. It is against everything that the Founding Fathers were about.
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