Apologizing For Bible Truth ?

A few weeks ago Jerry Falwell apologized for the comments he made while he was being interviewed by Pat Robertson. What did Jerry Falwell say that was so awful?

Based on the response he's received you would have thought that he blasphemed God, or denied the virgin birth, or burned the American flag publicly. After all, Pat Robertson, Cal Thomas, Rush Limbaugh, even President Bush vehemently condemned what he said. Whatever he said must have really been awful because he came out quickly and apologized. What did he say? He said that the sins and wickedness of people in our nation are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. He specifically mentioned homosexuals, lesbians, feminists, abortion and a few other sins. This "horrible" statement brought the wrath of so-called "Christian" leaders, not to mention the White House, down upon him. That's it folks.

Since he has retracted his statement and apologized for it, I want to go on record today as saying, "The sins and wickedness of people in America are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. Specifically, I believe several national sins such as the homosexual and lesbian lifestyle, the home wrecking, God-denying, feminist movement, the millions of abortions performed annually, as well as the compromising, worldly churches are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation."

I was taught to believe that righteousness exalts a nation and sin brings reproach to any nation. Therefore I do not expect to make any apologies for the statements I have just made.

If George Washington were alive today I don't think he would be apologizing for Jerry's statements. He once said, "Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens."

I don't think Thomas Jefferson would be apologizing. He once said, "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble For my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."

I wrote last month that our nation's political leaders are just a reflection of our nation's pulpits' leaders. Mr. Falwell's apology just proves my point. Politicians as a rule don't seem to have a backbone, but neither do most preachers.

Remember the words of Isaiah 5:20, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" We won't apologize for God's Truth and then expect God to bless America. Mr. Falwell, you had it right-you had no business apologizing.

The Bible does not state anywhere, that God smashes airplanes loaded with innocent women and children into the side of the World Trade Center, to punish America for having too many homosexuals, pagans, and atheists.

Ah, but The Bible does state in Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of all men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness...

Right. I would say that I equally am opposed, on Biblical grounds, to those who would make a one-for-one connection on absolute authority where the Bible gives no such assurance, AND those who would insist that our decades-long and intensifying attempted "twitting" of God is certainly and assuredly unrelated to this.

The fact is, we know from Scripture that too many of the things that America has been embracing and advocating are PRECISELY the sorts of things that removes the protecting hand of God, and invites both His direct judgment and/or the judgment of divinely built-in consequences.

Dan

Ah, but The Bible does state in Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of all men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness...

Does it say that it is revealed specifically unto Falwell?

Maybe I missed that part.

Thanks for the kind words. Now it is my turn to say that this is excellent:

By the same token we could use the Bible to claim that those who are prosperous and experiencing good fortune are being blessed because they are doing what's right in God's eyes........and on the other hand those who are experiencing hardship, or illness or are victims of crime are cursed because they must be doing evil. This simple-minded misinterpretation of Biblical doctrine contradicts other teachings in scripture, such as the fact that Christians can expect persecution and suffering for their faith, that God makes the sun to rise and the rain to fall on both the righteous and the wicked.

It's too bad some people only want to pick and choose from the Bible in order to fit their own personal self righteous agendas.

Amen, and Amen. Many good folks have been eviscerated by wretched "Job's 'friends'" who have assumed that misfortune necessarily equals Divine disapprobation, and the reverse. All of it shatters on verses like this --

For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
1 Peter 3:17

-- to say nothing of the example of Christ, whose suffering had nothing whatever to do with His having committed any sin.

Dan

I agree that God can bring national judgment for sin, and that He has done so, many times, in the past.

Citing Israel is only tangentially relevant, however, since Israel had a very explicity covenant with Yahweh conditioned on obedience, for which calamities were stated as the penalties for disobedience. America has no such covenant.

However, having said that, I again affirm that God is the moral Governor of the universe. What I deny is (A) that I or anyone can state unequivocally without direct Biblical authority that 9/11 happened specifically and solely as a direct punishment for national sins; and that (B) misfortune and calamity are always Divine punishments.

Dan
Biblical Christianity message board

I think there's certainly a great deal of Biblical truth in what you say, and yours is a very interesting story, to say the least.

Perhaps it'd be helpful if I put it this way:

Here is what I think we cannot say with Biblical warrant:

"The calamity of 9/11 happened because of [list sins here], and if America doesn't repent, God will send worse calamities until it does, whereupon He will stop sending calamities and will instead bless us materially."

Here is what I think we can and should say with Biblical warrant:

"America has been blessed with access to God's Word, and freedom to practice it, as no nation in history has been blessed; yet it has increasingly taken His blessings, and used them to disrespect and mock Him. The behaviors that grow out of this intentional back-turning invite God's judgment, and guarantee a bitter and harmful harvest. America must repent and turn to God in Jesus Christ, on the basis of His Word, or it can be assured of judgment from the God who will not be mocked."

Dan

What did Jerry Falwell say that was so awful?

IMO, he was blaming "them" for "their sins" while ignoring his own sinfulness. The author of this piece at least included worldly churches, but he still left alone the sins that people in his own congregation are likely committing, without hearing a word against them from the pulpit. How many people in his church are not feeding the hungry, cloting the naked, visiting the sick or in prison, sheltering the homeless? How many in his church watch worthless movies hoping to see a little skin? How many in his church gossip or otherwise use their tongues divisively? How many in his church are comfortable with that behavior because "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven"?

OK, I'm not perfect either. The question isn't, "How many Christians are perfect." The question is, "How many Christians are humble and repentent over their sinfulness." When we get proud and say, "The only sins that will draw G-d's wrath are homosexuality and abortion and other things I never do," and ignore our personal sins then we are presumptuous beyond belief. It isn't the sins of those homosexuals or those abortionists or those perverts that would cause G-d to remove His hand of blesing.

It is my sin.

I have no right to point fingers at anyone else while there is a beam in my eye.

Shalom.

Only two Abrahamic covenants were given by God to humans to restore a relationship to Him. They are the covenant of the Law and the covenant of the Fulfilled Law through Jesus's sacrifice by Grace.
Either a person chooses one or the other, so those who do not choose the law's fulfillment through Christ's work and sacrifice chooses by default the LAW. Recall Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, not to abolish it.
For those who do not accept Christ's attonement, the law states in Leviticus, clear, concise curses for the nation or persons who choose disobedience to God, and a blessed restoring of a broken relationship by recognizing and confession of the wrong(s) committed by the offender.
Those who deny those curses are only serving a "Convenience God" - one which is convenient for them to serve as they wish, instead of how He demands. They only see God's mercy with no reprisals for administering justice as He determines. We are the created, not God - we are subject to Him, not Him to us. It is we who will be held accountable for our relationship to Him, not He toward us....

Her's how I feel about modern churches:

No Fire, No Passion

There are churches round about
all have their doctrines to shout
truth is me! truth is me!
but do any of them really see?

They show Him hanging on the cross
the true meaning of His death being lost
His resurrection was defeat of the grave
and the essence of what He gave

Their teachings have become sterile
they continue at their peril
of losing the promise of the magnificent One
I speak of course, of Yahweh’s son

They have no fire, they have no passion
they preach what's in fashion
their prayers are spoken by rote
their teachings are nothing of note

Yahweh does not compromise
His plan for us is not disguised
It's laid out in His letter
there's never been anything better

He set the rules
He owns it all
we are fools
if we do not heed the call

The beauty of what He has done
is exemplified by His Son
with His death upon the hill
His defeat of the grave and still

We have two choices we can make
two roads we can take
one is the straight and narrow road
the other is loss of our soul

Falwell is arrogant. He dwells much on the wrath of God and punishment of the disobedient. He does this to his own detriment and does damage to the message of the Gospel of Christ. Instead of putting his accusing finger in the face of the gays, ACLU, abortion rights, and other organizations, he should be about preaching healing, Grace, Mercy, and Forgiveness. There is no balance with Falwell, which makes him an antagonist. He is too much salt with no love. The message from Falwell is judgement and with no mercy, a twisted view of God and Christ who came to redeem the world from sin.

""Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you". To distill that further, "You be nice to me, and I'll be nice right back."

I'm afraid that you have misunderstood the golden rule. It isn't about how we react to the kindness of others, rather it's a statement about how were to love others first. IOW, the more appropriate translation would be "love others the way you wish to be loved". It is a proactive command, not a reactive command.

Hi there HiTech

I've been thinking about the same point as you in the last few days: aren't there parallels with the descriptions of Jeremiah and his treatment by Israelites and the treatment of the doom-mongers of today by Americans? And I came to the reluctant conclusion that there were. There are two places where the parallel appears to break down. One is between Jerry Falwell and Jeremiah. Jerry Falwell is no Jeremiah, and so far as I know, hasn't claimed to be a prophet. But. But. Jeremiah is recognised as a towering moral figure today -- but was not at the time. Indeed, his rejection is an essential part of his story. How would we recognise a true voice of G-d today? I don't have an answer to that. The second breakdown in parallels is that at that time there was a tradition of prophecy -- it was part of the national discourse. That isn't the case today, and it might be argued that prophecy is no longer part of our world. Still, the central challenge is there. How would we know a true prophet? Frightening stuff.

Steve

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. Psalms- 9/17

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. Psalms- 9/17

Strange.

I didn't see one mention of the World Trade Center... OR airplanes.

Let me read it again...

Nope, still not in there.

America, and apparently you, have turned their back on GOD. Now GOD has turned his back on us! Lip service, "GOD bless America", doesn't cut it. There needs to be a true revival in this country. Without that, this war, this people, and this country is LOST! Flame on - I stand on the true word of God, through his son Jesus Christ. Terry Olendorff

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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