Apologizing For Bible Truth ?

The Baptist Bible Trumpet ^ | Nov 2001 | Steven Mays

[Church Lady]

Apologizing for Bible Truth?

A few weeks ago Jerry Falwell apologized for the comments he made while he was being interviewed by Pat Robertson. What did Jerry Falwell say that was so awful?

Based on the response he's received you would have thought that he blasphemed God, or denied the virgin birth, or burned the American flag publicly. After all, Pat Robertson, Cal Thomas, Rush Limbaugh, even President Bush vehemently condemned what he said. Whatever he said must have really been awful because he came out quickly and apologized. What did he say? He said that the sins and wickedness of people in our nation are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. He specifically mentioned homosexuals, lesbians, feminists, abortion and a few other sins. This "horrible" statement brought the wrath of so-called "Christian" leaders, not to mention the White House, down upon him. That's it folks.

Since he has retracted his statement and apologized for it, I want to go on record today as saying, "The sins and wickedness of people in America are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. Specifically, I believe several national sins such as the homosexual and lesbian lifestyle, the home wrecking, God-denying, feminist movement, the millions of abortions performed annually, as well as the compromising, worldly churches are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation."

I was taught to believe that righteousness exalts a nation and sin brings reproach to any nation. Therefore I do not expect to make any apologies for the statements I have just made.

If George Washington were alive today I don't think he would be apologizing for Jerry's statements. He once said, "Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens."

I don't think Thomas Jefferson would be apologizing. He once said, "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble For my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."

I wrote last month that our nation's political leaders are just a reflection of our nation's pulpits' leaders. Mr. Falwell's apology just proves my point. Politicians as a rule don't seem to have a backbone, but neither do most preachers.

Remember the words of Isaiah 5:20, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" We won't apologize for God's Truth and then expect God to bless America. Mr. Falwell, you had it right-you had no business apologizing.

Pastor Steven E. Mays - Trumpet Editor

[sweet_diane]

"Would you like onto the Christian bump list I have?"

Yes I would :)

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

accurate-bump...

[RnMomof7]

I hear what you are saying..what is really strange is that human judgement is a double edged sword..the same people condeming the judgements of Falwell are judging him.

So when we condem the judgements of others we ourselves are judging..it is the splinter vs. the log all the time.

What does God ask of us? Are we to stand silent in the presence of evil? Is calling evil ,evil a sin? Did paul stand silent when he saw sin in the church,or did he address it?

I do believe we must be cautious..because God's word tells us the measure we use to measure others is the measure used to measure us.

Judgement belongs to Jesus Christ..but we are to be watchmen,if we fail to warn (not judge) we will be held responsible..it is a very fine line

[RnMomof7]

Done:>)

[RnMomof7]

He is awesome!

[MSCASEY]

So what you are saying is that Gods blessing is on America. That the people of America are following His Will. That we are deserving of his great blessing and protection. I think you sound a little self righteous yourself. Maybe you should read a little more. Maybe then you will be able to dicern the times. LCD

[DreamWeaver]

God does not move away from us, HE is always there for us if we reach out to HIM. No, HE does not leave us, it is this nation that has left HIM. We have taken HIM out of our schools, our public squares that are not allowed to honor HIM with a nativity scene, in order not to "offend" non believers. How Long, just how long does anyone think this nation can go on and expect HIS protection against evil. It is this nation that needs to return back to HIM.

[Joshua]

Where does it say int the bible that the USA has a shield of protection around it?

Where in the bible does it state that Christianity is a nation builder?

Are we protected because we have such godly seers as Mr. Mays?

God blesses those who love him and choose to follow him (His church)regardless of where they live. Belief that a nation is blessed because of it's number of believers is absurd. This seminary educated pastor,like Falwell and Robertson,should think before they claim Gods will.

We have a hard enough time witnessing to the unbelievers without having to explain the rantings of people like these who claim to be pastors.

[amstaff1]

I'm no conservative when it comes to the wonderfully quaint idea of man and his religions and so I'll only say this. When man created god in his own image he was creating the greatest scapegoat the world has ever known. It is infinitley amusing to watch people screw things up so relentlessly and consistently and then explain that it's all gods doing. These ideas were all formulated back when people didn't know any better, vestiges of the pre-scientific age if you will. The author of this piece, it's sponsor and a good many of the folks out there reading it need to move out of the dark ages and into the light. That is the only way events like those of 9/11 will ever be stopped once and for all.

[Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek]

What I (and others) have objected to is the selective misuse of scriptures by meanspirited self-righteous individuals for their own purposes..Specifically exploiting a horrific crime and tragedy to point their judgemental fingers and assign blame. Of course they never mention their own personal sins.


On that point, you and the others are on target. Indeed, Falwell has properly apologized (contrary to the author of the original article, who has missed the mark on this point) for raising the issue of national judgement without presenting a sufficiently broad scope for the causes, and by implicitly limiting the causes to his favorite political enemies by listing only them in his initial comments. As several responses (not necessarily in this thread) have said, "judgement begins at the house of God", and Falwell has acknowledged this reproof.

What you said in your response to the texts posted, however, was: "So much scripture and so little understanding.
Perhaps if some criminals slaughter your family and friends you can then piously parrot your verses about it being God's judgement for the nation's sins.
(phewwww!)"

Now, this certainly bears a strong resemblance to the push-back I've gotten from others who have reacted to the warnings of these passages with anger and contempt in their voices, as though it is treasonous to even hint that "the good 'ol USA" could have anything to repent after "those wicked creatures blowing up all of those poor innocent people". As though, by pointing to the possiblity that God's judgement was part of the picture, I was somehow making excuses for the wicked ones who perpetrated this catastrophe, and justifying their motives and actions. The typical instrument of God's judgements, particularly the judgements on Israel, were the wicked nations and empires who came in to stomp on the Israelites whenever His restraint on them was removed - - - righteous neighbors being in short supply for such use. Likewise, raising the possiblity that the behavior and attitude of the people and institutions of the USA (BEGINNING with the churches)has left our nation vulnerable to divine punishment does not imply that the instruments of that judgement wear halos and come against us with pure motives.

Or, go ahead: present your non-negotiable demand: "God Bless America!", and see how far it gets you.

Whoever said this? What are you talking about?


The individuals who reject the very possibility that their nation may be under God's judgement, because of the collective sins of their neighbors and who complain about the references to that possibility in His Word, are implicitly demanding God's positive sanctions (the blessings) and rejecting the possibility that the behavior and attitude of many of their fellow citizens (including, perhaps, even themselves) has earned their nation the negative sanctions (the curses) promised for unrestrained disobedience. So, when they sing "God Bless America", they are not humbly petitioning God, or even thanking Him, but rather sending up their "non-negotiable demands". Psalm 2 is just for them!

[chuckles]

I agree with what you said in #55, but we cannot comprehend the mind of God. God may have allowed the evil to happen on 9-11 just to bring us to repentance. He may have some sort of revival, U.S. or Worldwide, even in mind. Someone talked about God being mad at kids cause He gave them cancer. Well, How many children died of David's after David's sin? Most think of just the baby, but his other sons died also after the baby. Sometimes we fail to realize that we are all going to die, some just sooner than later. God uses these events for His purpose, even if we can't understand why. Did God kill everyone in Sodom, save one family? Is He sorry He destroyed them? Has He changed His mind about sodomy since then?

It is only by His mercy and grace that we live anyway. He doesn't owe us life of anykind. Why do we always question the justice of God when we deserve death from the begining? I absolutely believe my mother-in law suffered from terminal aplastic anemia for 2 years(unimaginable pain and suffering to the point of begging to let her die), just so I could see with my own eyes, her miraculous healing overnight. With my salvation, He moved upon my wife, my daughter, my father-in-law, 2 nieces, 2 nephews, 1 neighbor's re-dedication, and probably others that escape my mind right now. Was even 1 salvation worth my mother-in-law's pain and misery? God's economy is not our economy. God does raise up enemies to punish His children. God absoloutly does kill people to make His point. We belong to Him, even the non-believers. He will do as He wishes with us to bring Himself Glory.

One of the missions of Jesus was to convey the wisdom that this life is not the life to be concerned with. This life is a nanosecond in the eternal scheme. I have trouble with Fallwell trying to sell me a retirement home, but I can't really see what he said wrong about God's judgement. People have a lifetime to repent, but a nation can be judged at anytime. God is not on His throne draped in an American flag. God doesn't need America to complete His will. We must learn, however, that we need Him. We have trouble accepting that because we can sin for decades upon decades,protected by His grace, but when judgement falls, we are in denial because He didn't do it sooner, so why now? While we try to figure out the mind of God, His plan is flawlessly executed, perfectly timed to His Will, on its way to complete fullfilment.

[rolling_stone]

I am having trouble keeping up, if the muslims who did this deed died and went to their Heaven for fighting their religions enemies, and if the Christians and Jews who were believers went to their Heaven because they were saved, WHY should anyone but the infidels who died not believing and unsaved be upset?

Another thing that is confusing me is it looks to me like the Bible, the Koran and Nostradamus's Quatranes are all open to vastly different interpretations. Look at the differences expressed here and in the recent discussions of Islam. I am really upset that God (take your pick which one) did this to mankind. Hey if I was in charge everything would be clearcut, and if you didn't listen or understand I would personally tell you more than once every few thousand years. I have a hard time understanding why any God would make you believe in him to reach paradise. What is the reasoning behind that? What you believe is pretty much a result of what you have read or been taught (unless of course you have heard voices directly from God, then you are probably a true believer!).

What happens to the people that believe in another God because they never heard of the modern religions? What about the Incas, Aztecs, Mayans, Ancient Egyptians, Native Americans, isolated aborigines etc? They didn't even have a chance to buy their lottery ticket to Heaven because most never heard the word.....where are their souls and is that a just ending?

[amstaff1]

Well it's like this see, You're judged on the content of your soul and intent has everything to do with it. It should be no new news anymore that the golden rule supercedes and encomposses all others at the same time. You know the one, "Do unto others etc, etc". It really isn't all that difficult to understand, but you have to apply yourself and not get mired down in all the dogma.

[rolling_stone]

I can go along with that(and try to!) but what about the suicide terrorists? I guess since they declared a Jihad that whether they kill someone or someone else kills them, then they are doing onto others as (before?) others would do unto them......???

[woollyone]

"...if Christians pray for God's blessing in America, they must believe God does not answer their prayers, if what is happening to America is God's action. But if God does not answer their prayers, why do the pray? If God does answer the prayers of Christians for God's blessing on America, then 9/11 must be God's answer to those prayers and an example of God's blessing."

You forgot to factor in those people that are currently praying that God will judge this nation, so that we will again turn to Him, as His judgement opens our eyes to our own sin and depravity.

baa

[RickyJ]

Falwell had no problem with federal research funding on the embryonic stem-cells harvested from formally healthy live embryos. However, now he has the nerve to say that the USA was struck by terrorist because of abortion and gays? Falwell thinks he can be on both sides of this issue. What a fool he is.

[amstaff1]

I guess I should have written the whole quote out. In mine and many peoples lives, the quote goes "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you". To distill that further, "You be nice to me, and I'll be nice right back." God should have nothing to do with this. No matter how badly we have supposedly treated the Muslim people, our intent was never such that we would fly jumbo jets full of fuel and people into their buildings or populated areas. There is a real fundamental difference here when talking about intent.

[jlogajan]

These ideas were all formulated back when people didn't know any better, vestiges of the pre-scientific age if you will.

That's true for the older (goat herder) religions. But we have the new religions of the scientific era -- the Earth!Firsters, etc.

I'm afraid the fanatics will ever be amongst us.

[RnMomof7]

Hey if I was in charge everything would be clearcut, and if you didn't listen or understand I would personally tell you more than once every few thousand years. I have a hard time understanding why any God would make you believe in him to reach paradise.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The reason you are not God is because HE is,the reason things are not done YOUR way is because you are not God:>)

[rolling_stone]

Uh what about the Koran ? And the ancient civilizations that came before Jesus & John? Why must people believe in him? To conduct good lives, doesn't require a master, only a conscience....maybe some birth control too?