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To: madrussian
So many words that still don't make God a Jew. "One and the same" is just a way to explain how God could exist in so many forms. Ethnicity of Jesus has no bearing on God or his essense. By the way, do Jews believe that God is a Jew?

I didn't say that God is a Jew; Jews do not believe that. Such a statement could only be made by someone who believes that God became man in the person of the Jew Jesus. The logic is clear if you accept the premise:

1. Jesus is God.
2. Jesus is a Jew.
3. Therefore, God is a Jew.

Now, Jews do not accept premise #1, so we of course do not reach the conclusion #3. A Jew is someone who is born of a Jewish mother, or who converts to Judaism. God is obviously not a descendent of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, so no, we do not believe that God is a Jew.

"Charismatic preacher" I suspect is not the whole truth. It's like saying that Zhirinovsky is a "charismatic politician" when one really means "mad clown".

I use the term 'charismatic preacher' because it fits what he did. I could have said 'itinerant preacher', and that would have suited him as well. He went from place to place, preaching in the different towns he visited. I said 'charismatic' because he developed a following. I in no way meant it to be derogatory.

Do Jews regard Christianity as heresy and Jesus' teachings as false?

Let me take these one at a time.

1. Are Jesus's teachings false?

Since we don't have any writings by his hand, but only what was recorded by his followers, we can only know what they preserved. IMO, much of what Jesus taught was true and well within the framework of traditional Jewish doctrine. (I agree with what the article that began this thread had to say about his teachings.) I have much greater problems with the teachings of Paul than I do with the teachings of Jesus. I believe that what is taught about Jesus is false.

2. Do Jews regard Christianity as heresy?

Not for gentiles. Judaism does not teach an exclusionary salvation; we do not believe that you need to convert to Judaism in order to be 'saved'. Converts are welcome, but you do not need to convert in order to escape eternal damnation. We believe that the righteous of all nations will have a place in the World to Come. Jews are bound by the Covenant and the Law; gentiles are not. A Jew who converts to Christianity is considered an apostate, not a heretic. It is wrong for a Jew to do so, because belief in a triune God and a God made man are incompatible with the Torah. Furthermore, Jews who convert generally cease to follow the Law, which is also wrong according to our scriptures.

However, gentiles, who are not under the Law, have more latitude in their beliefs. We do think your understanding of the nature of God is incorrect. But Christianity is generally considered an acceptable form of monotheism for gentiles. The Jewish philosopher and theologian Maimonides preferred Christianity to Islam because Christians accept the inspired nature of the Hebrew scriptures (Muslims think they have been corrupted). And of course the Christian moral code is essentially equivalent to that of Judaism, another point in your favor, from our perspective.

131 posted on 11/06/2001 6:33:41 PM PST by malakhi
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To: angelo
Nationality is not a property of God. Jesus was God's manifestation in a human body. The nationality of that body didn't transfer to God.

Considering that Jews aren't following Christian beliefs, I find it amusing that the rantings of the so-called "Bible-believing" Christians who see the modern Israel as something special and pledge allegiance to Israel, are quoted lovingly by the Israel-first contingent. It's like quoting something people don't believe in when it suits them.

157 posted on 11/06/2001 8:55:45 PM PST by madrussian
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To: angelo
Angelo,

Thanks for posting your #131, an excellent summary of Jewish doctrines not well understood by non-Jews (or, for that matter, by many Jews).

180 posted on 11/07/2001 6:14:07 AM PST by Lurking Libertarian
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