Jesus the Jew

March issue, 1995 pages 1-6 [I typed it in.] | Arthur Zamboni----Catholic Digest--condensed from Catholic Update

[malakhi]

Jesus was NOT a jew....He was a Hebrew!!!! Please please stop with the doctrines and traditions of man. The jews are a mix of the babylon race and the hebrew race, Jesus did not come from a mix therefore He is Hebrew not a jew.

Uh, yeah, whatever dude. Do you even know the derivation of the word "Jew"?

[RightWhale]

Please see post #138.

[the808bass]

Didn't get here till post #90? Your reflexes slowing? :)

[slimer]

Doing a "good deed" for another human, a "mitzvah" in Hebrew, was accorded a status that in some ways, surpassed Temple worship. This was truly a revolution in religious thinking.

Trying to earn ones way into heaven was hardly a revolutionary or new idea. People have been trying to do this from the beginning of time.

[JMJ333]

What did you think about the comparisons in faith in the article? Clearly, it is a well thought out piece that uses scriptural reference against Pharasaic tradition. You also have several Jews on the thread who stated the info was correct. I think the case is well made that Jesus indeed was unabashedly Jewish and respected his roots and Law.

Regardless, to go back to the first question you asked me, I still feel we have a moral obligation to stand up for and defend Jews and Israel. There are a lot of people on the forum--not just non-believers, but Catholics and Protestants, who think that the Jews are nothing but a bunch of communists of the bolshevik stripe and that the Israeli government is full of the same.

I would argue that even if that were the case it doesn't matter because there will always be the group of people, however small, that are God fearing and who love God. It is quite clear in Matthew 1:1 that God chose to send the Messiah through the genealogical line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Therefore, we can't turn our backs on them. Its wrong to do so. That is my only point.

[JMJ333]

I guess if you only look at that statement and then try to say that doing good deeds is the only reason for the author saying the pharisaical movement is revolutionary, you might see it that way. I took him to meant the previous 4 or 5 paragraphs also.

[RightWhale]

As to the generations, if one is into numerology one can find some significance in 3 sets of 14, where generation has the value 14 and David also has the value 14. 14 must mean something, although I don't know what, and there is the 3 which might refer to the Trinity. The prophet said the virgin would name the child Emmanuel, but Mary named the child Jesus. There are also a set of minor characters in the Gospels that I have been wondering about. They include Lazarus, Salome, John the Baptist, Magdalene, and Simon Magus. Also, what was Peter's problem with Magdalene? Don't forget the 3 wise men whom some claim to be Persian but could just as easily be Egyptian. Where did the multitude that Jesus fed come from just after John's death? There are a lot of hints and gaps, which is probably what Mohammed seized upon to promulgate his own version of religion, not to mention the Cathars, Manichaeans, and who knows what other heresies and Gnostics.

There is a big problem these days, and we better get our Christianity straight or this Pagan religion of bin Laden is going to be in our face for some time to come.

[malakhi]

Paul says there was only one promised seed made to Abraham, and not seeds (v.16).

Paul was wrong. Can you even tell me what passage from Genesis Paul was referring to in Galatians 3:16?

Abraham was justified solely by his faith, and before the law was given at Sinai.

So Abraham really didn't need to circumcise himself and his sons, did he? Nor did he have to follow the commands given to Noah.

The Israelites have no temple, they have no priesthood, and therefore they have no sacrifice for their sins.

How, exactly, do you think that Israel obtained forgiveness for sin in the time between the first and second temples? You really have no understanding of the Jewish concept of qorbanot (sacrifice), what its purpose was, and what it accomplished.

[JMJ333]

Did you ever read the article? What do you think of it?

[malakhi]

Was Jesus a Jew? It's immaterial.

Sez you. I think the claim that Jesus was the messiah, and that Christians seek to prove this claim by (mis)using the Hebrew scriptures, prove rather conclusively that it is a material question. If Jesus isn't Jewish, then he sure as heck ain't the messiah. You can kiss the Christian grounding in Jewish scripture and prophecy goodbye.

[Bobby777]

and actually I don't think any of the Gospels say "3 wise men" ... 3 are assumed because of the number of gifts ... it could have been any number of 2 or more ... take a look ... it's a bit surprising ... FReegards ...

Bobby

http://www.SufferingMessiah.Com/welcome.htm

[malakhi]

Didn't get here till post #90? Your reflexes slowing? :)

LOL! Well, I must have actually been getting some work done for a while there.

[Jeremiah Jr]

Matthew 23
¹ Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, ²saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. ³Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do."

Matthew 5
¹⁷ "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. ¹⁸For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. ¹⁹Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. ²⁰For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

[malakhi]

Trying to earn ones way into heaven was hardly a revolutionary or new idea. People have been trying to do this from the beginning of time.

Contrary to popular opinion, Jews do not perform mitzvot to try to earn our way into heaven. We do it it out of love and obedience to God and His Law.

[JMJ333]

Fine, but did you read the entire article or did you only make it half-way through? It discuss that which you posted in regard to why the opinion is held that the Pharisees are considered the archenemy in the New Testament. I thought it did a good job explaining. And if Jesus isn't close to the Pharisees in his teaching styles, which one of the other sects do you consider him to be?

[madrussian]

Nationality is not a property of God. Jesus was God's manifestation in a human body. The nationality of that body didn't transfer to God.

Considering that Jews aren't following Christian beliefs, I find it amusing that the rantings of the so-called "Bible-believing" Christians who see the modern Israel as something special and pledge allegiance to Israel, are quoted lovingly by the Israel-first contingent. It's like quoting something people don't believe in when it suits them.

[Starrgaizr]

I think the claim that Jesus was the messiah, and that Christians seek to prove this claim by (mis)using the Hebrew scriptures, prove rather conclusively that it is a material question. If Jesus isn't Jewish, then he sure as heck ain't the messiah. You can kiss the Christian grounding in Jewish scripture and prophecy goodbye.

This is an important political/historical source of religious-based Christian antisemitism. Jews, as keepers and expert interpreters of their own sacred books in the original language, rejected the Christian theological textual basis for the claimed messianic nature of Jesus. It was awkward to claim that Jewish scripture supported something that Jews could explain it didn't.

[madrussian]

It was important to Him to say that he didn't come to change Jewish Law but fulfill it.

The Jews didn't follow Jesus, and aren't going to. In fact, they take offence at the conversion attempts and are actively opposing it and assimilation. What Jesus hoped would be continuation of the Jewish Law, didn't come to be.

He was showing respect for a beliefs system he abided by-- and that is good enough for me.

I am glad for you. Continue your prayers for the state of Israel and leave us sane Christians alone :)

[malakhi]

Nationality is not a property of God.

Hold on there, cowboy, I agreed with you on this.

I find it amusing that the rantings of the so-called "Bible-believing" Christians who see the modern Israel as something special and pledge allegiance to Israel, are quoted lovingly by the Israel-first contingent. It's like quoting something people don't believe in when it suits them.

You are free to be amused by whatever you like. I'm sure Israel appreciates their support. You don't have to agree with someone 100% in order to be friends with them.