Justice Department won't let (FBI) agent testify (in Nichol's state trial)

Indianapolis Star ^ | November 3, 2001 | JAMES PATTERSON

[OKCSubmariner]

While Terry Nichols, already convicted on federal charges in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, returned to court Monday to face the state's case against him, the government was squirming to squelch evidence that Nichols and Timothy McVeigh did not act by themselves.

[rwfromkansas]

I do think it is wrong that the feds can control a state trial. How did they stop that man from testifying in the grand jury? In any case, I do not blame Bush for this. That does not mean I am not upset with his appointees though....and disappointed.

[Nita Nupress]

That's why I'm still waiting for a motive that George and Jeb would give Janet a pass on this one.

While you're waiting for OKCSubmariner to pull off a few miraculous feats of mindreading, why don't you take a stab at the Justice Department's motive for not allowing former FBI Agent Dan Vogel to testify about the 22 affidavits?

After all, that IS the main focus of this article.

[EarlyBird]

The fact remains: if the Reno justice dept. had done their job instead of hindering local and national law enforcement, September 11th might not have happened.

OK, I hate Reno as much as you do. And I believe, as you do, that her DOJ was worthless.

What I don't understand is why George W. Bush is now protecting her.

Please enlighten me.

[MizSterious]

"A clue for you is that Bush replaced few if any significant Fed bureaucrats and officials that were Clintonistas. "

This fact should be a big warning alert to any but the most blind. Unfortunately, there appears to be a number of that category here.

But perhaps the real question is, are they blind, or is it just that they don't want to see?

[hoot2]

Audio

[Twodees]

EB, it's absurd to imply that Bush would have to get rid of everyone in government hired during Clinton's tenure. He would have to clear out the important upper level officials who could be reassigned without firng or who could be fired. He hasn't done this. Clinton had no trouble at all doing a huge makeover at the DoJ, did he? He had a very hard time geting an AG confirmed, but gutting the attorney's ranks he could do and he did. Bush/Ashcroft haven't even cleaned that mess up.

[MizSterious]

Nita Nupress made the best suggestion. Ask yourself what the government has to hide. They won't let these FBI agents testify. Judge Matsche (an ex-FBI agent himself) refuses to this day to unseal crucial evidence, even for Nichols' trial. Why is this? What do they have to hide?

[LSJohn]

The FBI and the Justice Dept. are the new Keystone Kops.

Sounds like you're trying to cover for them. Incompetence plays better in flyover country than criminality and/or intentional perversion of justice.

They are becoming more like the KGB than the Keystone Kops, with Mueller and Ashcroft letting it happen. There's no accident here.

[EarlyBird]

"A clue for you is that Bush replaced few if any significant Fed bureaucrats and officials that were Clintonistas. " This fact should be a big warning alert to any but the most blind. Unfortunately, there appears to be a number of that category here. But perhaps the real question is, are they blind, or is it just that they don't want to see?

Ohhhhhhh, now I understand. Clinton and Bush are tag-team members. Clinton can no longer continue to undermine American liberties since his eight years have expired, so he reaches through the ropes and tags his friend George W. George W. gets elected and jumps through the ropes to continue wrestling the same opponents as Clinton. They are a tag team who deceive everyone into believing they are different. Actually, both of them are striving for a Fascist overthrow of the people's government. This overthrow will be accomplished without any of us knowing that it happened.

[MizSterious]

Ohhh, now I understand. You're the newest member of the Flying Monkey Brigade, just another in a whole parade of them. You speak no logic, see no logic, and hear no logic. Have a banana.

[chantal7]

I think you have the gist of it.

Joe can't be punished with contempt of court for not testifying because his boss said he couldn't testify. It sounds even worse the 3rd or 4th time one says it. They must think they are G*d and far above the law of the land. Hmm Joe can't be punished for not testifying because his boss won't let him testify...what's his punishment if he wants to testify and does testify regardless of what his boss allows? Death Penalty? Life in prison? A fine? Probably the worst horror that could befall a man..a weekend alone with hillary?

Btw, that was a quote from an earlier post/report. I like to do that so that people will know what I am responding to but in replying to you I didn't c/p what I am referring to.

[carenot]

"This overthrow will be accomplished without any of us knowing that it happened."

Hey, I think you are getting it!

[Twodees]

You're right. Motive is circumstantial justification for suspicion. It's more useful in building a case for an arrest warrant than in building a case for conviction where other evidence exists. Motive is very helpful to a prosecutor trying to get a conviction on circumstantial evidence alone, but it isn't at all crucial in a case which includes physical evidence and sworn testimony.

[LSJohn]

I started to offer some comments to EarlyBird, but read a few more of his/her posts and realized that golietly has uncovered the only rational motive for EarlyBird's posts on this thread:

"Ohhh, now I understand. You're the newest member of the Flying Monkey Brigade, just another in a whole parade of them. You speak no logic, see no logic, and hear no logic. Have a banana."

Demanding to know motive is a debater's trick which fools only the most naive. Forget speculative discussion of motive and look at the facts; that's precisely what EarlyBird appears to want people NOT to do.

[rightofrush]

Ohhhhhhh, now I understand. Clinton and Bush are tag-team members. Clinton can no longer continue to undermine American liberties since his eight years have expired, so he reaches through the ropes and tags his friend George W. George W. gets elected and jumps through the ropes to continue wrestling the same opponents as Clinton. They are a tag team who deceive everyone into believing they are different. Actually, both of them are striving for a Fascist overthrow of the people's government. This overthrow will be accomplished without any of us knowing that it happened.

'bout time.

This overthrow will be accomplished without any of us knowing that it happened.

Speak for yourself. It's happening now.

[EarlyBird]

Motive is very helpful to a prosecutor trying to get a conviction on circumstantial evidence alone, but it isn't at all crucial in a case which includes physical evidence and sworn testimony.

Bullsh!t!. This is how you people deny reality. I am officially gone from this thread. Good night.

[rightofrush]

Keep in touch.

[chantal7]

That's why I'm still waiting for a motive that George and Jeb would give Janet a pass on this one. #1 It's still early in the campaign, too early to stir up dirt, leaving too much time for the dirt to settle before election day.

#2 As bad as I hear that reno is doing running for governor, I doubt that the Bushes have to stir up any dirt on her to beat her. In Florida, I have heard that reno made herself quite a reputation for losing cases. I'm sure the Floridians know what reno is like.

Besides, with the way her illness is progressing she might not be healthy enough to be governor.