Gun Control After September 11

FOXNEWS ^ | Friday, November 2, 2001 | Glenn Harlan Reynolds

[Scalia Rules]

"I think all women oughta carry a cell phone and a three-fifty-seven. Loaded." So declares a woman interviewed by The New Republic's Michelle Cottle.

That statement seems to sum up the post-Sept. 11 attitude toward gun control. Things were already tough for the gun-control movement. Convinced that Al Gore's strong anti-gun stance had cost the Democratic Party the 2000 election, the Democratic Leadership Council had already called for a softer line on gun control. Bill Clinton and former White House spokesman Joe Lockhart had pronounced Gore's stance a mistake. Meanwhile, product-liability suits brought against gun manufacturers were failing miserably in courts from New York to California.

[TaZ]

God made men, Samuel Colt made them equal and the Liberal Democrats made them all criminals.

P.S. The reason the US Military went to 9mm was to standardize with NATO protocol. Besides, is my dream gun is a .45 Winmag. Gonna be my next gun....lol!

[Scalia Rules]

His tastes are very eclectic, that's for sure. And I still can't figure out there the heck he has all that time to surf the web and post comments on his web log all day. He's certainly Posnerian in that regard. I take it "NonZeroSum" is reference to the classic rejoinder to the Hobbesian argument for the State, no?

[Travis McGee]

>>>It is undeniable that it is a more accurate pistol<<<

What have you been smoking?

[truth_seeker]

I have not owned or fired a gun since the Army, where I sustained a permanent hearing loss, on the firing range. It seemed intelligent to not risk further damage, and I felt I could rely on the gubmint to protect me.

That changed, when Cheney said it was likely more people would be killed in the United States, than abroad, by terrorists. The intelligent thing changed to buying a gun, and learning about the best hearing protection I could get. My local gun store employee assured me that many other citizens are buying guns. I intend to go for concealed carry.

So I bought a Ruger P89, 9mm, mainly based on fairly low cost, to get started. Any recommendations about the best hearing protection? I have had tinnitus in both ears for 32 years, so I would like to not make it worse.

[Scalia Rules]

Mkae that SEVEN misses with the .45, and some nasty recoil to boot!

[Scalia Rules]

Make that SEVEN misses with the .45, and some nasty recoil to boot!

[my trusty sig]

Sig rules

[Scalia Rules]

Oh, gimme a break. Don't try to defend an undefendable position, i.e., that a .45 is more accuarate and reliable than a 9mm. If you prefer the .45, great. But don't tell me it doesn't have more drawbacks for the average firearm user--law enforcement and military included.

[Scalia Rules]

Beretta rules more.

[my trusty sig]

I was telling someone on another thread that I've cycled every cartridge imaginable- the gamut of premium hollow points, FMJ, re-mfrs, aluminum blazers- and never had a malfunction, and I'm talking many, many thousands of rounds.

Sig rules!

[The Cajun]

I have had tinnitus in both ears for 32 years, so I would like to not make it worse.

I've had it for about 30 years (constant sleigh bells). When shooting the the big stuff, I use earplugs and muffs.

[Travis McGee]

For the "average" minimally trained sad sack or flatfoot, the 9mm is the way to go.

Every serious SRT and military specops unit has gone back to the .45 though. All of them.

The DA 9mm is a great first gun to break in a non-shooting chick on though, I'll grant you that.

Or weakish men with smallish hands who tend to flinch.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"and the Liberal Democrats made them all criminals."

Don't forget the Republicans also.

How the Brady Bill Passed (and subsequently - "Instant Check")
When the Brady Bill was passed into law on November 24, 1993,
the Senate voted on the Conference Report
and passed the Brady Bill by UNANIMOUS CONSENT.

NOT ONE SENATOR FROM EITHER PARTY VOTED AGAINST THIS

[NonZeroSum]

His tastes are very eclectic, that's for sure. And I still can't figure out there the heck he has all that time to surf the web and post comments on his web log all day. He's certainly Posnerian in that regard.

Well, people who do research and writing for a living cam find time to do such things. As someone who runs my own weblog, I find that it doesn't take as much time as one might think, assuming that one already is spending a lot of time working on a computer, and can do it in spurts and breaks. He doesn't actually write all that much--he mostly posts short comments about stuff that other people write,and weblog software makes this pretty painless.

I take it "NonZeroSum" is reference to the classic rejoinder to the Hobbesian argument for the State, no?

Actually not--it's more of a reference to game theory, and Robert Wright's book of the same name.

[nightowl]

I heard on FOX a while back that gun sales had risen 500% since 9/11. Yea, Americans really want gun control! sarcasm

[vengance]

Kudos!!!! Our Bill of Rights should never be hinderd by any one or any entity! Our fathers and fathers before them have lived fought loved and died for this country and our way of life. We cannot at any expense forget the reasons of our Bill of Rights, We must always have a means of protecting our selves from our foes because they can come from any where at any time, whether be be by accident coincidence or on purpose there is a threat to each and everyone of us, at least until the day comes that no one has weapons or harmfull intentions. We need to make sure we dont abuse these rights but we must also make sure we never loose these rights. I must say with great Honor to our Fathers Fathers "I will give my dust back to the soil from which I was born to protect the very reasons why we united as a country and to our foes I Say: Dont Tread on Me for If you do It had better not be litely because I will strike back with great vengace and you will know That we came United

[Travis McGee]

My friend who was part of the test had all of the tabulated results from all phases of it (accuracy, reliabilty, ergonomics, ruggedness, ease to train on, etc etc.) said that SIG won going away, and it was a foregone conclusion by all incolved.

Then the "higher highers" announced that it would be Beretta after all. Even though they had already found out about cracking slides etc. Pure politics, "you want X on this base, we get the contract, capiche?" "Capiche."

[PoorMuttly]

Ahem. Let me see....it is true that we changed to the 9mm AND .223 so the kids and women could spray-and-pray the bushes, and get real confident...then die. We gave 'em a plastic rifle made by Mattel too, which I remember vets telling me were only good for sticking in the ground to hang your bloody helmet on, to mark your grave. A friend...directed Harvey Keitel in "The Bad Lieutenant," ex-sniper and SOF editor frequently stated that the 9mm "is a European Police Woman's round," Luger and Man From U.N.C.L.E. notwithstanding, and reports abound of numerous "failures to stop" on the street, some bullets disintegrating on ribs. FMJ's overpenetrate on non-reinforced targets, and is the reason some of us carried them...to dig others out of cover. Shoots FLAT, though, which is great. An acquaintence was the first Officer on the scene of a nasty shootout in a local McDonalds. The leader of the gang displayed the bad judgement to stand between his 9mm-toting accomplices, and the equally-armed store manager. The guy took so much lead he pinwheeled around, entrance and exit wounds on all sides of his body. "He's walking around Hempstead today." This Officer advised me to carry what he subsequently was using...a .45 Sig.

Also read a credible factory report that the Beretta, oversized for the round, girlfriends notwithstanding (no offense meant, as I have never introduced a female to shooting who did not whup-ass the first time she got used to ANY firearm!), that it is a 10,000 round gun. The factory rep. actually said that, after that, throw it away. WWI 1911's are still going strong on the target fields, and in real, mortal action. Cops in cold climates prefer .45s to get the attention of partially-frozen perps, and hey, the whole design philosophy was to replace the useless .38s (9mm) our troops were using against the Moros in the Phillipines. We won WARS with this equipment. What is the record of the 9mm and .223?

I mean no offense to anyone with all this...but hey...facts is facts, and this is FR, where the Truth should surface, right? I carry a 9mm. I HIT with it, it's thin, reliable, has reach...and I own it. I also fence. By the way, carrying a SWORD in N.Y.C is LEGAL...as long as it is NOT CONCEALED. It is also a fashion statement. Enjoy. My tinfoil suit shall keep me from all harm.

[Scalia Rules]

Macho B.S. is not sound advice for the defensive needs of "average people"--who you impugn anyway.

[epow]

9mm is the way to go. Even the US Army thinks so.

More proof that brainwashing really does work.

You say the safest place to be is in front of a .45. Come out and watch me and my shooting buddy shoot 2" groups at 25 yds with our 1911s sometime and see if you still think that would be a good idea. Check out the exit hole a .45 Hydro Shok leaves in a bundle of wet phone books and see if you still prefer a 9mm. Some people want to believe that size doesn't matter, but we all know better.

SEALS, who depend on handguns as primary weapons, carry H&K .45s. FBI SWAT teams and HRT went to custom Springfield 1911s after trying almost every other round made and finding them inadequate. Police departments all across the nation have dropped the 9mm in favor of the .40 S&W, and they didn't do it because they had money to burn on new equipment either. They did it because their street cops didn't have confidence in the 9mm. The .40 is a good round, but a lot of cops would still choose a .45 if they had their choice.

The military switched to the 9mm because of standardization with NATO forces, and because a soldier can carry 9mm ammo in less space and with less weight. It's also easier to train a green recruit on a 9mm than a .45. The old WWII era .45s were wearing out in the mid 1980's and needed to be replaced, so the 9mm NATO round seemed to the brass to be the way to go. A lot of old soldiers still disagree.