Flights grounded in Pittsburgh after two small planes violate airspace near nuclear power plant

KDKA radio Pittsburgh | 10/31/01

[Dane]

Flights at Pittsburgh International were grounded this morning after reports that 2 single engine planes violated the airspace around the Shippingport nuclear power plant. Flights have resumed.

[RicocheT]

If someone tried to crash one of these [small, private] planes into any nuclear containment structure in the country, they'd just sweep it off.

Agree, anything under two engines and 8+ seats is too small and too light to do any damage to a structure as well built as a nuclear facility. A Ford Focus car is heavier than a six seater light aircraft. Even with explosives on board such as nitrogen fertilizer/fuel oil, they don't carry enough to matter. Anyone with access to military explosives won't bother with a pivate plane as a delivery system, they will have better toys at hand.

[occam's chainsaw]

This affects small general aviation only. If someone tried to crash one of these planes into any nuclear containment structure in the country, they'd just sweep it off.

Unless it was loaded with explosives, maybe?

[chimera]

OK, then. A case of mistaken identity based on local colloquialism. Fine, Beaver Valley it is, then, to the rest of us.

Its hard to imagine a scenario where a single-engine plane in and of itself would pose much of a threat to the Beaver Valley units. If it were carrying a strategic nuclear warhead, fuzed to go off at ground level, that might be a different matter. But we'd probably hear about the theft and attempted smuggling of it first.

[Mat_Helm]

What would happen if a suitcase nuke was set off at a nuclear palnt? Would the fissible uranium and or plutonium material at or in the reactor increase the overall yield of the detonation as a secondary of some type? That would be very scarry as the spread of radiation and the size of the increased blast would be horrific.

[wvnavyvet]

Little do you know. Yes the old Shipingport plant has been, but there are two other plants, Beaver 1 and Beaver 2. These plants have operated for many years.

[Thud]

Not a chance.

[Dane]

2:00 update from KDKA. Beaver County 911 called the Pittsburgh airport and told them about the two small planes. Flights at Pittsburgh International were grounded and military planes checked out the situation and gave the all clear and flights at Pittsburgh International resumed.

[Glenn]

My wife works in Midland, which is literally in the shadow of the cooling towers. My child is in day care there. She is on her way home from a trip to Georgia today so neither is in town. I just heard sirens and my reaction was they must be for the plant. Damn.

[GEC]

Correct. Both were designed to withstand the direct impact of a 747.

I took a tour through the Beaver 2 containment building while it was being constructed. The walls are 10 feet thick reinforced concrete.

[ElGatoGrande2]

I would be very surprised if the intelligence community had not set up an inordinate number of traps for these jack@sses.
Welcome to my parlor, said the spider to the fly

[E.Allen]

Shippingport is the name of the town, you are correct that the original reactor was decommissioned, but same site has two (Beaver Valley 1 & 2) nuclear plants. Town also has a large coal fired plant (Bruce Mansfield).

[bob808]

Correct. Both were designed to withstand the direct impact of a 747.

Isn't that what they said about the WTC, too?

[Snerdley]

What would happen if a suitcase nuke was set off at a nuclear palnt? Would the fissible uranium and or plutonium material at or in the reactor increase the overall yield of the detonation as a secondary of some type?

Speaking as an x-Nuke (USN), no it wouldn't cause any addional nuclear reaction. Our reactors can only sustain a chain reaction as long as there is liquid water cooling down(and slowing down neutrons in the core. If the pressurized primary coolant system (water, albeit radio-active) is breached, that superheated water will flash to steam and escape into the environment, probably causing evacuations and widespread panic about radiation poisoning. The reaction itself in the core will stop almost immediatly (even if the boron control rods don't scram the reactor) since without the water, the neutrons produced by the fission will be traveling too fast to continue the chain reaction.

In order for uranium to self sustain a fission reaction, you'd need a critical mass of weapons grade uranium and have it dense enough to catch these escaping neutrons. This is done in a bomb by compressing the uranium with chemical explosives inward in a very precise pattern. This can't happen randomly by an external explosion.

I hope this alleviates your fears of a nuclear plant becoming a nuclear bomb. It could only become a radiation hazzard like a radiological bomb. This isn't to say that radiation hazzards aren't dangerous, but there is no chance of a nuke plant wiping out an entire city via a nuclear explosion.

-Snerdley

"Never start a fight, but by God, ALWAYS FINISH IT!"
-Captain John Sheridan
Earth Space Station Babylon 5

[Snerdley]

What would happen if a suitcase nuke was set off at a nuclear palnt? Would the fissible uranium and or plutonium material at or in the reactor increase the overall yield of the detonation as a secondary of some type?

Speaking as an x-Nuke (USN), no it wouldn't cause any addional nuclear reaction. Our reactors can only sustain a chain reaction as long as there is liquid water cooling down(and slowing down neutrons in the core. If the pressurized primary coolant system (water, albeit radio-active) is breached, that superheated water will flash to steam and escape into the environment, probably causing evacuations and widespread panic about radiation poisoning. The reaction itself in the core will stop almost immediatly (even if the boron control rods don't scram the reactor) since without the water, the neutrons produced by the fission will be traveling too fast to continue the chain reaction.

In order for uranium to self sustain a fission reaction, you'd need a critical mass of weapons grade uranium and have it dense enough to catch these escaping neutrons. This is done in a bomb by compressing the uranium with chemical explosives inward in a very precise pattern. This can't happen randomly by an external explosion.

I hope this alleviates your fears of a nuclear plant becoming a nuclear bomb. It could only become a radiation hazzard like a radiological bomb. This isn't to say that radiation hazzards aren't dangerous, but there is no chance of a nuke plant wiping out an entire city via a nuclear explosion.

-Snerdley

"Never start a fight, but by God, ALWAYS FINISH IT!"
-Captain John Sheridan
Earth Space Station Babylon 5

[Snerdley]

Sorry for the double post. Kept getting time out errors trying to post once. ;(

[thesharkboy]

Correct. Both were designed to withstand the direct impact of a 747.

Isn't that what they said about the WTC, too?

Nope. The WTC was designed to withstand the impact of a much smaller 707. The 747 was built after the WTC.

[dalereed]

FDC 1/1763 FDC TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS OVER NUCLEAR SITES. FOR REASONS OF NATIONAL SECURITY. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL NOVEMBER 07, 2001 0500 UTC. PURSUANT TO TITLE 14 CFR SECTIONS 91.139, EMERGENCY AIR TRAFFIC RULES AND 99.7 SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS. ALL GENERAL AVIATION FLIGHT OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN A 10 NAUTICAL MILES RADIUS OF AND BELOW 18000 FEET MSL OVER THE BELOW LISTED NUCLEAR SITES EXCEPT FOR MEDEVAC, LAW ENFORCEMENT, RESCUE/ RECOVERY, EMERGENCY EVACUATION AND FIRE FIGHTING OPERATIONS WHEN AUTHORIZED BY ATC For the complete notam, see AOPA Online

( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2001/010915tfr.html#1/1763 ).

==> PUBLIC-USE AIRPORTS AFFECTED BY NUCLEAR-SITE TFR <==

Alabama -- DCU, Pryor Field Regional, Decatur

Arizona -- BXK, Buckeye Municipal, Buckeye

California -- C83, Byron, Byron; LVK, Livermore Municipal, Livermore; TCY, Tracy Municipal, Tracy

Colorado -- 1V5, Boulder Municipal, Boulder; BJC, Jeffco, Denver; 48V, Tri-County, Erie

Connecticut -- GON, Groton-New London, Groton New London

Delaware -- EVY, Summit, Middletown

Florida -- CGC, Crystal River, Crystal River; HST, Homestead ARB, Homestead

Idaho -- IDA, Idaho Falls Regional, Idaho Falls

Illinois -- I01, Empress River Casino, Joliet; JOT, Joliet Regional, Joliet; M30, Metropolis Municipal, Metropolis; C09, Morris Municipal-James R. Washburn Field, Morris; C55, Barnett Memorial, Mount Morris

Iowa -- CWI, Clinton Municipal, Clinton

Kansas -- UKL, Coffey County, Burlington

Kentucky -- PAH, Barkley Regional, Paducah

Louisiana -- HZR, False River Air Park, New Roads; 1L0, St John The Baptist Parish, Reserve

Maryland -- 2W6, Capt Walter Francis Duke Regional At St Mary's, Leonardtown

Massachusetts -- 2B2, Plum Island, Newburyport; PYM, Plymouth Municipal, Plymouth

Michigan -- C20, Andrews University Airpark, Berrien Springs; W87, Wickenheiser, Carleton; ONZ, Grosse Ile Municipal, Detroit/Grosse Ile; TTF, Custer, Monroe; 0D1, South Haven Area Regional, South Haven; 40C, Watervliet Municipal, Watervliet

Minnesota -- 8Y6, Leaders Clear Lake, Clear Lake; MGG, Maple Lake Municipal, Maple Lake

Missouri -- 0L8, Heart, Kansas City; MKC, Kansas City Downtown, Kansas City

Nebraska -- K01, Farington Field, Auburn; K46, Blair Municipal, Blair; 3NO, North Omaha, Omaha

Nevada -- TPH, Tonopah, Tonopa

New Hampshire -- 7B3, Hampton Airfield, Hampton

New Jersey -- MJX, Robert J. Miller Air Park, Toms River

New Mexico -- LAM, Los Alamos, Los Alamos; E98, Mid Valley Airpark, Los Lunas

New York -- 0B8, Elizabeth Field, Fishers Island; H43, Haverstraw, Haverstraw; 7N2, Peekskill, Peekskill; 3G7, Williamson-Sodus, Williamson/Sodus

North Carolina -- AKH, Gastonia Municipal, Gastonia; TTA, Sanford-Lee County Regional, Sanford; SUT, Brunswick County, Southport

Ohio -- 02G, Columbiana County, East Liverpool; 2G1, Concord Airpark, Painesville; EOP, Pike County, Waverly

Pennsylvania -- BVI, Beaver County, Beaver Falls; P64, Miller, Burgettstown; N10, Perkiomen Valley, Collegeville; CXY, Capital City, Harrisburg; MDT, Harrisburg International, Harrisburg; HZL, Hazleton Municipal, Hazleton; N71, Donegal Springs Airpark, Mount Joy/Marietta; N47, Pottstown Municipal, Pottstown; PTW, Pottstown Limerick, Pottstown

South Carolina -- CEU, Oconee County Regional, Clemson; HVS, Hartsville Regional, Hartsville; LQK, Pickens County, Pickens; UZA, Rock Hill/York Co/Bryant Field, Rock Hill

Tennessee -- 1A0, Dallas Bay Sky Park, Chattanooga; 2A0, Mark Anton, Dayton

Texas -- AMA, Amarillo Intl, Amarillo; CFD, Coulter Field, Bryan; CLL, Easterwood Field, College Station; F55, Granbury Municipal, Granbury

Virginia -- 7W4, Lake Anna, Bumpass; LKU, Louisa County/Freeman Field, Louisa; LYH, Lynchburg Regional/Preston Glenn Field, Lynchburg; W24, Falwell, Lynchburg; PHF, Newport News/Williamsburg International, Newport News; JGG, Williamsburg- Jamestown, Williamsburg

Washington -- S98, Vista Field, Kennewick; PSC, Tri-Cities, Pasco; RLD, Richland, Richland

Wisconsin -- RGK, Red Wing Regional, Red Wing

West Virginia -- 7G1, Herron, New Cumberland

[chellis]

There most certainly is a working nuclear reactor at Shippingport.

[GOPJ]

OK, I want you running security.

If I were running security, I wouldn't want obvious checkpoints that a terrorist "scout team" would spot and either drive around off-road, or switch to a more undefended target.

I'd have troops in place that would spring out and nail the bastards the moment they crossed the point of no return.