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Wesleyans believe that every man is born with a measure of Gods grace..and that grace is active during our lives and it keeps drawing men to God.But that man can continue to ignore or refuse the work of the grace

I have a book on Spiritual formation that talks about "intersections " with God. Moments in our history where we were aware of His presence in our lives.

Those would be considered a sign of God's work in sinful man..

Hello Mom,

Regarding post 222, we believe that Jesus instituted the Eucharist because of His words in scripture. Then the Apostles words in scripture, and the Apostles teachings outside of scripture, which they passed down to their disciples.

There are many quotes by the Apostles outside of scripture, quotes by the disciples of the Apostles, and quotes to the present day.

Even Martin Luther, until he completely split with the Church, believed in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

I believe that part of the problem is protestants "leap frog" as Stephen Ray says, from the Apostles to the reformation, and completely ignore 1500 years of Christian history and teaching.

I think you owe it to yourself to read this history and teaching on your own, I mean, if Christs words are literal, alot of people are missing out on the Body of Christ, a tremendous gift.

Regarding catholics who are unchanged by Holy Communion or come out of Mass and are vile, well, I can only pray that the grace of God will open their eyes. Grace works in all of us differently. We will all be accountable for the words we use, catholic or protestant.

And yet, this inborn "grace" cannot overcome the Roman road:

As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; there is none that understandeth; there is none that seeketh after God.
They have all gone from the way; they have together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
"Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit." "The poison of asps is under their lips," "whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood; destruction and misery are in their ways, and the way of peace have they not known."
"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

From what I've read, Wesley did not understand verses like these and his invention of prevenient grace at birth entirely misses the point. Man already possesses the will to repent and receive the knowledge of Truth through faith in Christ. This grace to give man the ability is irrevalent. Man already possessed this ability. The problem is in the want of man to repent. Man does not want to repent. Wesley never understood this, from what I've seen of his writings. He completely missed the point of such verses like this one I've quoted.

I have a book on Spiritual formation that talks about "intersections " with God. Moments in our history where we were aware of His presence in our lives. Those would be considered a sign of God's work in sinful man..

You mean like Balaam? Did he want to repent and follow God.