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Interesting that this would on the surface to be more in line with regeneration HUH?

I see your point.

Still, Wesley didn't really believe in regeneration solely by God. He required a general prevenient grace, just enough grace, as winston seems to agree, to allow each person to be responsible for his own decision for or against Christ but not enough grace to overpower or actually be decisive in conversion. So, a Wesleyan may even say that they believe in salvation solely by grace but it is the decision of an utterly corrupt and spiritually dead human being which determines his fate.

Calvinism does draw a sharp line of division here. There are truly two strains of theology that arise from the either the full affirmation or full rejection of the TULIP. There is no way to honestly escape the conflict. Each person has to study the Word to understand for themselves whether God really is sovereign in salvation or whether it is ultimately man who is sovereign in his salvation.

I think there is always a small spark of rejection of this most basic idea of Augustinian/Calvinistic thought. It does produce a profound humility in those who sincerely accept it, knowng how unworthy they are. This flies in the face of winstonchurchill's charge that it leads to an arrogance and indifference to sin or missionary efforts, clearly a libel against the history of Calvinistic congregations around the world ever since the Reformation.

Still, Wesley didn't really believe in regeneration solely by God. He required a general prevenient grace, just enough grace, as winston seems to agree, to allow each person to be responsible for his own decision for or against Christ but not enough grace to overpower or actually be decisive in conversion. So, a Wesleyan may even say that they believe in salvation solely by grace but it is the decision of an utterly corrupt and spiritually dead human being which determines his fate.

I have no will to try to speak for Wesley on this.I have found it of interest that he shared with the reformation a view of the totally sinful ,fallen,depraved state of the natural man.. As I said when we started this discussion I think the matter of grace is the bottom line..and the question that each person that has heard and responded to the gospel must search their hearts .

Wesley believed that prevenient grace was resistible,where Calvinist teaching would say the grace of God is irrestible. I think this is where the question of free will comes in...can one ignore or refuse the grace of God? In all honesty I know I could not have "resisted " that moment.

So we get into a doctrinal quagmire here..and one I am choosing to stay out of..:>)