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To: tpaine
They could have agreed to abide by the constitution.

tpaine, the South did abide by the Constitution (althought I know you have been taught otherwise), it was the North that didn't respect the Constitution.

Next time you find some new state quarters, notice that all the original 13 colonies have statehood dates of 1787, EXCEPT N. Carolina and Rhode Island which are 1788 and 1789 respectively. Now can you tell me what status these territories were during this interim times? I do assume you knew this right?

Well, I'll tell you just in case. They existed as sovereign countries (like France, Germany, England, etc). AND, if you will read the ratifying resolutions of EACH and EVERY state when they agreed to ratifying the constitution, they ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION RESERVED THEIR SOVEREIGNTY with the clear intent that if they didn't like being part of the UNION, that they reserved the right to withdraw from it.

Now people like Story, Webster, Lodge, and others can twist this around all they want (focusing on the one word 'perpetual'), but it doesn't change the intentions of these states at this time.

Just like the North refused to honor the findings of the SCOTUS in the Dred Scott decision (because they claimed most of the judges were biased to the South), I as a Southerner refuse to accept the validity of the Texas vs White case where the justices were hand picked Republicans and the decision preordained. However, the central pleading of this case was not the question of whether or not a state had the right to secede.

Here is what Chase said regarding the question of secession.

'We are very sensible of the magnitude and importance of this question, of the interest it excites, and of the difficulty, not to say impossibility, of so disposing of it as to satisfy the conflicting judgments of men equally enlightened, equally upright, and equally patriotic. But we meet it in the case, and we must determine it in the exercise of our best judgment, under the guidance of the Constitution alone.'

78 posted on 10/31/2001 6:22:07 PM PST by smolensk
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To: smolensk
Oh, I know the real reasons behind the Civil War and slavery was but one of them.

It was the anti-slavery drum that was beat loudly in the North to mind-control the Northerners to turn on their Southern brothers. Without Slavery, I don't think they could have found enough support to turn on the South.

One of the main reasons for the war was to centralize "Federalize" government power to control what was then considered rogue factions of the Union. With the Feds becoming all powerful, they could accomplish bigger graff and corruption then could be accomplished on a local level. Moreover, to re-establish a central bank to enrich the Elite, the Constitution had to be subverted to allow them to control US economic, monetary and fiscal policies. The puppets in DC, including Lincoln, and those to follow, would be easy to control and corrupt.

The Irish Imigrants who were poor and uneducated understood the reality of the situation being foisted on the country. That is why during the battle of Gettysburg, the Draft Riots began and NYC was nearly burnt to the ground. They turned on the Blacks because the blamed them for giving the Government an excuse to draft them and for taking their low paying jobs. Of course, the Elite were given an out from the draft, they could buy their way out of it.

Slavery was a plague on this country that has far reaching effects even until now. It is too bad the Founding Fathers couldn't have been a little brighter and realized this, but they again had their Elitist agendas to fulfill.

Don't misunderstand me, I think there were a lot of sick degenerates in the South who IMHO were more evil than Lincoln ever was. Lincoln was just a fool for how he dealt with the situation. Perverting the Constitution was his first mistake. He fell right into the hands of the Elite, or maybe he was there all along.....

82 posted on 10/31/2001 7:04:48 PM PST by TaZ
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To: smolensk
AND, if you will read the ratifying resolutions of EACH and EVERY state when they agreed to ratifying the constitution, they ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION RESERVED THEIR SOVEREIGNTY with the clear intent that if they didn't like being part of the UNION, that they reserved the right to withdraw from it.

----------------------------------------

Then why didn't they present their case to the supreme court, get a ruling, & withdraw legally? They never even bothered to try too dissolve the union in a constitutional manner, because they knew they had no just, legal, case to present.

ALL of their grievances were resolveable. --- They rebeled & went to war instead, and lost. Learn to live with it.

91 posted on 10/31/2001 9:26:38 PM PST by tpaine
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