The south could have done the same in 1860 , even used massive civil disobedience to win their points. -- They chose war, & paid for it.
To my mind, this is how the present day federal stranglehold can be broken. States can refuse to obey unconstitutional federal law, and protect their citizens from federal officials, by every means short of open rebellion. 'They' can't jail a whole state. - #145
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Yes, 'tpaine' I do see the point that you are making which is somewhat different, albeit related, to the point you have just now further helped me make.
The ultimate right to secede MUST have existed, wouldn't you agree, or else there would have been no real 'threat', only a hollow one. So thank you for helping me make this point. -#151
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Anyone can make threats. The threat to secede doesn't establish that states have that power.
I am first, a US citizen. I own property in Calif. My fellow citizens in CA have no power to tell me that CA is no longer part of the union, and that I must become a citizen of Democalifopia, or leave. -- Instead, - the feds will protect my rights, and there will be civil war.
Okay, tpaine, now you have lost all credibility and you are now 'backpeddling'.
And the world of 1861 was not the 'liberal' world as it is today in California. People were citizens of their respective states then, NOT the United States. Allegiance was owed to the states and states prosecuted acts of treason. If you lived in a state that decided to secede, yes, you either seceded with it (assuming that most of your neighbors voted for the secession) or you gave up your citizenship to THAT STATE. You aren't a historian are you?