[tpaine]

No hypocrisy, you see human nature in action. Those states used threats, & they won their point on the 1812 war.

The south could have done the same in 1860 , even used massive civil disobedience to win their points. -- They chose war, & paid for it.

To my mind, this is how the present day federal stranglehold can be broken. States can refuse to obey unconstitutional federal law, and protect their citizens from federal officials, by every means short of open rebellion.

'They' can't jail a whole state.

[smolensk]

No hypocrisy, you see human nature in action. Those states used threats, & they won their point on the 1812 war.

Yes, 'tpaine' I do see the point that you are making which is somewhat different, albeit related, to the point you have just now further helped me make.

The ultimate right to secede MUST have existed, wouldn't you agree, or else there would have been no real 'threat', only a hollow one.

So thank you for helping me make this point.