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To: sonrise57
...the USA is a secular, pluralistic state with constitutional guarantees of the free exercise of religion. These messangers base their messages on the idea that the USA is christian nation. We are not. The USA does not equal the church. The USA does not equal the people of God.

The United States was founded by predominantly (virtually all) Christians. Its presidency has been occupied in virtually all cases by Christians. The United States has adopted as its motto - "In G-d we trust" - in other words taken the name of G-d...

Too many contributors to this thread are saying (paraphrasing here) that "You're god is evil. What kind of god would do such?" The very idea that these people would interpret these actions as evil done by G-d is preposterous beyond belief. AND this is one of the major shortcomings of modern Protestant mainstream congregations. They have made "what they think, believe, and judge" to be the god that they worship. It is a fallacy that is sourced from their belief that only they can judge what is appropriate for G-d, appointing themselves as G-d in both word, deed, and judgement. Nothing can be damned by these (and it is a majority of mainstream protestants in the USA) except taking any stance against that which they have judged themselves. It is self worship and it is pervasive. It is why Methodists, Episcopalians, and Presbyterians (among a few others) are performing security escorts for abortionists. It is why these same are rearing children who hate themselves and loathe anyone who dares tell them that ANYthing is amoral. It is the same children who wind up fighting for PC, tolerance for deviancy, and stand for any and every thing they care to judge as evil. We are actually hearing now from the second, third, and fourth generations of people taught in this way. The extremist elements of "tolerance" and "political correctness" are sourced from the precise same theological roots.

To hear some of these parishioners, their main religious motivation is "Hey man, it's great! NOTHING is damned". And subsequently the same people find it nescessary to trample all over anyone who thinks that there are absolutes or real truth according to G-d as given by G-d's word. The mainstreamers problem and ultimately their downfall is that they have evolved into self worshippers while continually taking upon themselves the position of the god that they have appointed themselves. It is shown in statements like "Oh SHUT UP" and all manner of similar intolerance and disgust for any words that are not of the same self worshipping lineage.

Truth will continue to be the truth, regardless of what the self worshippers judge and proclaim... Whatever ways G-d works or chooses is so far beyond the grasp of the self worshippers as to be unreachable by them - however, to be sure, just about everyone of them will be howling that they know and can judge just what G-d should be doing, how it should be done, and what will be the acceptable way of viewing and discussing these things. Give it up, YOU ARE NOT G-D, thank G-d!

81 posted on 10/29/2001 9:27:22 AM PST by Will
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To: Will
Will, I agree with much of your post, but take issue with the notion that the USA is somehow to equated with the people of God. See my post # 73 for futher elaboration. I am a conservative evangelical out of the reformed tradtion, so I concur with your sentiments regarding people who want to charge God with evil if he had anything to do with WTC. God is sovreign and providentially works out everything to his own purposes and ultimate end. We cannot fathom the mind of God or understand his mysteries. At the same time, I believe American Christian are presumtion in our assuming that we as a nation have some special status with God. I believe we are reading history incorrectly.
88 posted on 10/29/2001 9:33:52 AM PST by sonrise57
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To: Will
It is why Methodists, Episcopalians, and Presbyterians (among a few others) are performing security escorts for abortionists

Maybe they just don't want to see them be murdered. How evil of them!

It is the same children who wind up fighting for PC, tolerance for deviancy, and stand for any and every thing they care to judge as evil.

I don't much care for PC myself, but how do you define "tolerance for deviancy"? It sounds as though you want the govt to use force against those you consider "deviants". A frightening thought, since I suspect that your definition of "deviant" would include most of the population.
98 posted on 10/29/2001 9:46:12 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: Will
RE post 81. I couldn't have said this any better. Good post, thanks.
180 posted on 10/30/2001 1:48:11 AM PST by MarMema
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