CDC tests show no bioengineering of anthrax; spores similar to ones that infect animals

Oregonian ^ | 10/25/01

[SAMWolf]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Genetic testing shows the bacteria in the anthrax-by-mail attacks have not been bioengineered and are quite similar to natural strains that sicken animals, federal health officials said Thursday.

"These strains cannot be distinguished from other anthrax isolates that are known to have caused disease in barnyard animals" in the United States and Europe, said Dr. Julie Gerberding of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

While CDC says the anthrax so far is susceptible to penicillin, preliminary tests suggest it also may contain an early signal of developing penicillin resistance. Thus CDC said Thursday that patients with inhaled anthrax should not be treated with penicillin alone.

But from an investigative viewpoint, that discovery "is entirely consistent with the natural biology of the organism," Gerberding said. In nature, anthrax strains often show that chemical signal.

"We have absolutely no evidence to suggest these isolates have been genetically altered or engineered in any way," she added. "We're quite relieved that their susceptibility profile looks like what we would expect from a naturally occurring strain."

So far, the CDC hasn't finished genetic tests on anthrax spores recovered from the Washington postal facility where two workers have died and two others become infected with inhaled anthrax. Those tests are important to help determine whether the anthrax came from the same batch as the bacteria in letters mailed to Florida, New York and a Senate office.

Then there's the nation's other antibiotic resistance worry -- that some 10,000 people now are taking Cipro while CDC figures out whether they were exposed to anthrax and thus are at risk. All of that Cipro use, infectious disease specialists worry, could cause everyday bacteria to mutate so that Cipro won't be useful against other infections.

The CDC won't be able to detect if that's happening right away, Gerberding said, "but I would be surprised if it was a zero impact."

[proud American in Canada]

It's just a question of which way one wants to spin it. On the one hand, the anthrax has not been genetically altered so as to make it resistant to antibiotics. On the other hand, the anthrax was processed in such a way as to change its electro-static qualities so as to make it more likely to become airborne. It is obviously quite lethal when inhaled.

From what I understand, based on freepers' comments--that means Iraq. All three countries can make it airborne (US, Russia, Iraq), but only the US & Russia are antibiotic-resistant.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your post! It's fine with me, too! Our servicemen and women shouldn't be spread thin if we can help it. Hugs!!!

[That Poppins Woman]

Let's not forget the dollar factor.

For example, the Nobel laureate Joshua Lederberg, who headed the Gulf War Syndrome report that dismissed the link between bio-chemical weaponry and the GWS just happened to have been a director of one of the companies that had sent the witches brew over to Saddam, during the time of the shipments.

For example, a particular defense contractor I used to work for had a little contract with Col. Oliver North a decade+ ago, and was responsible for much of the Iran-Contra logistics. Maybe a dozen folks worked the contract, and maybe a hundred of us throughout the company knew about it. Nobody was talking back during the Hearings, and nobody's talking now. So, when I hear folks declaring that conspiracies are B.S., I just laugh, 'cause I know better. There are times when folks keep their mouths shut, and let the lie be told to Americans. For the money, for patriotism, out of apathy, out of fear, whatever. It happens.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for the kudos (blush!!!) Hugs!

[Clinton's a rapist]

Pretty much the way I see it too ...it could also be that they don't want public pressure to mount against Iraq too soon as they are not strategically positioned to attack Iraq at this point ...or they don't want to signal to Iraq what their intentions are (or both).

Agreed.

[mewzilla]

And now that I think about it, I'm not sure that the fact that the anthrax is NOT antibotic resistant argues for some small potatoes outfit.

Think of the delivery system, which is basically a terrorist over here speading it around. Unless the guy is wearing a moon-suit (dead give-away) or has a bio-containment facility in his basement, then he could very well end up contaminated and dead himself before he's able to do much. Then we could just follow the dropping terrorists.

Remember that report about Atta or his comrade going into the drug store in FL for something for a cold and/or reddened hands? These guys want to be around long enough to disperse this stuff. If it's resistant and they expose themselves, they won't be.

[Alamo-Girl]

Another great catch, mewzilla! If it were genetically engineered to be antibiotic resistant, it would have to be delivered on a missile warhead to avoid killing the perps.

[freddy]

There is so much going on that we're not hearing about. That's fine with me, I trust this group.

Trust..????

Have you LOST your mind..???

[DallasDeb]

I keep hearing that it is advanced anthrax, it isn't, it is, it isn't....They need to come clean on this...

That was my initial thought. However, I believe the authorities are talking about two different things. The anthrax itself is nothing but ordinary anthrax found in nature. But, it has been REFINED with other substances to cause it to disburse readily in the air and stay airborn at the slightest breath or movement.

[Orbiting_Rosie's_Head]

The idiot who wrote this article doesn't know the difference between "weaponized" (treated with a chemical to affect aerosol properties) and "bioengineered" (alteration of DNA). Either that or he/she does know and thinks you don't. Methinks they're just trying to give legs to the "the right-wingers did it" stories that are popping up.

[mewzilla]

Thanks. Actually, as bad as this is, especially for the postal folks, it could be a lot worse. At least we have the luxury of a learning curve public health-wise that's less steep than it would be for something deadly and communicable.

[r9etb]

Total B.S. The doctors treating the anthrax victims -- will tell you that the 1-5 micron variety they are treating is genetically altered.

And how would a clinical doctor be able to tell us that? Answer: they cannot. They haven't got time or equipment to do it. That's what the CDC is for.

Beyond that, given that the bacteria are sensitive to standard antibiotics, one really must wonder what all that alleged genetic alteration was supposed to do? (Hint: it was supposed to make anthrax immune to antibiotics.)

Perhaps it's a plot by the recording industry to give the little bugs a taste for the music of Britney Spears?

Britney: Much beloved by girls and anthrax?

Too many folks here are knee-jerk conspracy theorists. It is likely that there is more true than false in this report.

[Eva]

I originally heard that the anthrax could not be considered a weapon because the spores were randomly sized, not all small enough to be air borne. Ritter said that weaponized anthrax would be uniformly sized and much more deadly.

[AfghanAirShow]

"Am I the only one who thinks he should have remained the governor of PA? He hasn't impressed me thus far."

Could have been worse -- wasn't he the one that Powell wanted as SecDef?

[That Poppins Woman]

he could very well end up contaminated and dead himself before he's able to do much.

Hello? They are dying for Allah. They just needed 1 shot. 1 envelope to mail. That's it. And then they go to their 70 virgins.

And as far as bodies dropping ... have they found Chandra's yet? And how many people have been looking for hers? These guys could do their envelop and then traipse out into the woods for a last prayer, and we'd never even know they had been here.

[TomB]

The idiot who wrote this article doesn't know the difference between "weaponized" (treated with a chemical to affect aerosol properties) and "bioengineered" (alteration of DNA).

Actually he isn't an idiot because there really isn't a definite definition of the term "weaponized". For some, a weaponized strain must be both antibiotic resistant, and properly produced so as to be easily aerosolized. For others, either individually will suffice. You essentially have people using the term differently. It really is not a conspiracy.

Here is an article that describes the difficulty:

"Weaponized" anthrax is a term that has no scientific definition.

[IRtorqued]

Ok, so which is it??? I keep hearing that it is advanced anthrax, it isn't, it is, it isn't....They need to come clean on this...

they won't, not while they can use the 'panic card' to pass laws to squash freedom.

[That Poppins Woman]

deadly and communicable

For *&^&^%%'s sakes! WAKE UP! You load up on antibiotics for the anthrax and your immune system is severely weakened. (Antibiotics do that.)

What happens to severely weakened immune systems when they meet up with West Nile, Hanta, or Saddam's Gulf War Cocktail?

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

[xclusiv1]

They have to somehow blame this on the right wingers!

[pops88]

My understanding is that the stages to developing weaponinzed anthrax would be something like this:
1. Growing the anthrax in a liquid form.
2. Drying the anthrax
3. Milling it to a small size so the victim will inhale it deep into the lungs.
4. Applying some anti-static additive so the anthrax will stay suspending in the air so more will be inhaled.
5. Genetically engineering the anthrax to make it resistant to antibiotics.

According to the book "Plague Wars" by Tom Mangold, the U.S. made a break though in 1963 that allowed the production of tiny, dry particles of biologic weapons without milling. He wrote that the milling problem had been a serious production drawback. So this was almost 40 years ago....