Our Galaxy Should Be Teeming With Civilizations, But Where Are They?

Project Phoenix ^ | 25 Oct 01 | Seth Shostak

[Political Junkie Too]

I'm always struck by the use of the word "ordinary" to describe our star, and our galaxy.

If we are, in fact, ordinary, then one would assume that what happens here is also ordinary. If what happens here is ordinary, then all the other ordinary stars would also ordinarily have happen there what happens here. If it takes as long as it has for life to develop here to the level of intelligence and sophistication that we see today, we would have to consider it to be ordinary and expect other ordinary civilizations to be at the same level of intelligence and sophistication as we are at.

Just my rambling speculation. Your ordinariness may vary...

-PJ

[SamAdams76]

Has anybody ever considered the fact that other civilizations are probably sitting around waiting for us?

[FormerLib]

I've been wondering if there isn't something "inherent" to earth that would make it impossible to live long term elsewhere.

Good point!

[mlo]

I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the Incas and the Aztecs.

Spaniards.

[RightWhale]

Although he probably didn't know it, Husserl worked out a lot of the problem for us. He would have profited from use of a rudimentary grammar checker no doubt, and we would all be happier today.

[cork]

I can't believe this hasn't been said yet.
ALL YOUR GALAXIES ARE BELONG TO US

[BlackJack]

I'm right here.....under your nose earthling! veveveveveveveeveeeeeeee We can take any form we wish.......we can also be invisible to your simple mind. We can control the horizontal and the vertical, please do not adjust your screen. We can do mass brainwashing..... we got Clinton 70% approval rating! veveveveveveveeeeeeeee We don't want you to know we are here because you will want to take our vasukkajuice. veveveveveveveveeeeeeeeeee

[mlo]

I fully expect that corporeal human beings will never make the trip. (Once we learn how to transfer our consciousness to nonliving substrates, however, we just might manage it.)

I think we will one day build sentient machines. They will probably supercede us. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, think of it as our next evolutionary step. Our children supercede us too after all.

I don't think we will "transfer" our consciousness to anything else. I think that's impossible. But hey, I think when Kirk goes through the transporter a new person comes out with all Kirk's memories. The first one is dead. (Won't catch me on no transporters.)

[PatrickHenry]

Has anybody ever considered the fact that other civilizations are probably sitting around waiting for us?

Whether their "waiting for us" or not, if they exist at any decent level of development, they must be making some kind of noise that we could detect. That's the premise behind SETI. So far, nobody's out there. Or, they could be sitting around in a pre-radio stage of development, sort of like ancient Egypt, perhaps for millions of stagnant years. If so, fine. They're no competition. Get ready, aliens. We're coming!

[js1138]

Fermi's point is that we don't need to look. They would be here. Agree or disagree, but that is the argument. There are a lot fewer unknown variables in Fermi's conjecture than in the Drake equation.

Another point, made in a recent issue of Scientific American, is that only a tiny portion of the galaxy, represententing about one percent of the stars, is habitable. So this becomes the starting point for the Drake equation.

[jwalsh07]

He says he agrees with you.

[techcor]

I disagree. What is needed is that there be a substantial part of your civilization existing in different time frames. There would be "flat time" which we exist in right now.

Then there would be the "99.99% travelers" moving near the speed of light would slow their time down to 1/70 of "flat time" A worker over ten years would oversee 700 years of "flat" time.

Then some would live at 99.999999% of the speed of light and the time dilation would be more like 1/700 or some such. They could regulate over thousands of years.

Here's another thought. If someone takes a trip 10 light years away and is going so fast that time is slowed down by a factor of 10, doesn't it seem like to them that they took a 10 light-year trip in only a year? Doesn't it make it seem like to them , that they are traveling 10 times the speed of light?

[Publius6961]

How do we know that we really know that we want to have contact with alien life forms? What if they turn out to be more savage than we humans!?!

There is no question than some beings are more savage than others.

But the likelihood that the more savage group will expand into the universe ahead of the lesser savage is nil.

Let me put it this way.

Who do you think would get to the moon first?
The Muslim Arabs?
The Judeo-Christian West?

[tortoise]

Maybe it's because if you took all the carbon in the universe and put on the face of the earth, allowed it to chemically react at the most rapid rate possible, and left it for a billion years, the odds of creating just one functional protein molecule would be one chance in 10 to the 60th power?

The above statement demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of basic organic chemistry. HINT: If what you are saying was true, commercial chemical synthesis wouldn't be possible.

[sendtoscott]

Who do you think would get to the moon first?
The Muslim Arabs?
The Judeo-Christian West?

That depends on whether the FR War Party get the deportation laws they want. :-)

[Physicist]

I don't think we will "transfer" our consciousness to anything else. I think that's impossible.

Do you really think it's impossible in principle, or just prohibitively difficult (as I believe interstellar travel to be)?

[Fiddlstix]

I'm still trying to determine if there is intelligent life on Earth. ;^)

I'm with you :)

[tortoise]

"Transfer of consciousness" doesn't make information theoretic sense. "Copy of consciousness" does.

[Publius6961]

I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the Incas and the Aztecs.
Spaniards.

That response ia a triumph of ignorance and ideology over reality.

Ignorance, brutality, base savagery, combined with a centralized royalty type totalitarianism, stifling exploration, learning and innovation; that's what did them in.

Why do you suppose India and China were not similarly subdued?

[Physicist]

Call it what you like. Can we in principle make devices that, individually, think like we do, and remember what we remember?