Icemen to join hunt for bin Laden

Sydney Morning Herald ^ | 10/22/01

[Paradox]

Awesome. I think infrared optics should work especially well in the Winter as well.

Belgian Minimi light machine gun

Is that pronounced Mini-me? Cute...

[Coop]

A bump for the Brits!

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Someone pointed out that we must be wasting a lot of resources training troops in Alaska, if they can't even be used in the winter. Any thoughts from the military among us?

[Dust in the Wind]

"They have no equivalent in the United States armed forces"

Looking at Clintoons nose makes one think he could be called an "iceman".

But in all seriousness, I don't know what the big deal is about working in winter conditions that would be normal for most of people in Alaska and in the northern tier of American states and Canada. Can't there be gun mounts installed on snowmobils?

Yeah, I know that in unknown terrain and adverse conditions it gets harder to accomplish tasks, but outside the average combat soldiers capabilities? Come on.

[richandfamous]

I need PICS!!! Please!! I love men in uniform! lol

[texas booster]

Ya' know, they must be right. After all, don't the weak-minded capitalists at Prudhoe Bay all flee after August? And since our soldiers are so weak, maybe we should send scientists from the Antartica?

[Seydlitz]

The US Army does about as much cold weather training as the Panamanian Defense Forces. Occasionally, we send some Marine amphibious units to Norway for joint maneuvers. A few Spec Ops guys get some, too. Otherwise, our cold weather troops largely consist of a few guys in the Alaskan national Guard who have experience patrolling for SPETSNAZ troopers who would practice infiltrations into Alaska during the Cold War.

Historically, training of almost any kind has been anathema to the US Army. Napoleon once wrote, "The more inferior the quality of a body of troops, the more artillery it requires." In America, we have taken that to heart by providing lots of firepower and not bothering to train our infantry.

[cynicom]

I remember joint exercises at Fort Wainwright, Air Force and Army. Those grunts lay out in the snow and cold for days on end. We went home to warm beds each night. I doubt if it has all diminished to nothing. That was in Feb and the temp was a high of -15 or so.

[Seydlitz]

Spending some time in the snow is done by the troops (my dad's Army unit spent some time in the snow at Ft. Drum in upstate NY in the late 60s). However, real cold weather training is something that takes months of dedicated course work (such training was done in WW II for elite units like the 10th Mtn., the joint US/Canadian 1st SSF and the Norwegian-American 999th Ski Bn.). Add to that the exceptional altitudes of Afghanistan, and one quickly realizes that a week or two sleeping in the snow is terribly inadequate (for an example, witness the terrible casaulties suffered by the US Rangers at the Mingiano gap in Italy in 1943).

[VA_Reb]

I remember joint exercises at Fort Wainwright, Air Force and Army. Those grunts lay out in the snow and cold for days on end. We went home to warm beds each night. I doubt if it has all diminished to nothing. That was in Feb and the temp was a high of -15 or so.

I spent 2.5 years with the 172d Arctic Inf Bde and unless things have changed its one tough outfit. Operated 10-14 days at a time in -50F (wind chill not included). Double (or more) field exercises than other infantry units I was ever with. Our daily PT was done outside in short sleeve sweatshirts (unless in was less than -15 when we'd do it inside).
We ate Rangers for lunch ;)

[cynicom]

VA....

We went to Alaska from Micronesia, it was 120 plus inside the aircraft when we departed. Arrived in Elmendorf it was a balmy -20 in the afternoon. The grunts from Ft. Wainwright had been out in the boonies for long time before we arrived and they were still there when we left. In fact I think a few shot at us, not sure. hehehehe

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Cynicom seems to disagree with you. I too have been told, by an ex-military type, that we do in fact train for the winter conditions...

[knighthawk]

Who Dares Wins!

[okie01]

"Otherwise, our cold weather troops largely consist of a few guys in the Alaskan national Guard who have experience patrolling for SPETSNAZ troopers who would practice infiltrations into Alaska during the Cold War."

With all due respect, 10th Mountain is based at Camp Drum in northern New York...and their training ground is the Adirondacks. Winter is not for the soft in those parts.

[StriperSniper]

BTTT

[texas booster]

Remember, high altitude and bitter cold affect both sides equally.

The wide-eyed kids from Saudi and Qatar don't function any better than our regulars at 13,000 feet up.

I have trouble going to Denver to visit customers. Imagine trying to haul 100 lbs and fight at the top of Pikes Peak, to get an idea of what our guys go thru.

[breakem]

I thought the Marines were sending a few hundred infantry a year through Bridgeport, CA for cold weather training.

[Libertina]

24-strong Brigade Patrol Troop
Amazing bravery. 24 guys? Big BUMP of thanks and God Bless!

[Jumper]

If you beleive this crap that our infantry are not well trained, then you truly are a product of the left's media blitz. American infantry are concentrated primarily in the XVIII Airborne Corps, Special Forces, Rangers, and 1st Infantry Div-Europe; 2nd Infantry Div-Korea. We have worn these poor soldiers out with peace wartime training, e.g, insurgency, peace-keeping, peace-making missions. If you want true kick-ass action, turn them lose in combined arms. The problem American has no quality, it is one of quantity.