Candidates in Agreement on Benefits of Discord

NY Times ^ | October 19, 2001 | DAVID M. HERSZENHORN

[Hugh Akston]

TRENTON, Oct. 18 — In their third contentious debate in the New Jersey governor's race, James E. McGreevey and Bret D. Schundler finally found common ground tonight: they both refused to forgo negative campaigning and attack ads, saying voters would be better served if they fought a bruising battle that highlighted their many disagreements on public policy issues.

"I understand the intent of your question," Mr. McGreevey, the Democrat, said. "But I want to show that there are differences. Part of the reason American democracy works is because there are differences."

He added, "People need to understand those differences in a thoughtful and professional manner and then make a decision: who represents their values?"

Mr. Schundler, the Republican, concurred. "Jim and I are finally agreeing that we ought to have contrast," he said. "That's not a bad thing here."

A question about negative campaigning provided the opening bell. It came more than halfway through the hourlong encounter and, until that moment, the debate had been mostly cordial. Early on, even when they attacked each other, they seemed to do so halfheartedly almost out of routine.

But once they agreed that they liked to fight, the fists began to fly, and the debate quickly became a raucous affair with the two candidates exchanging angry barbs and the audience howling in support of one side or the other.

Mr. Schundler drew hoots of laughter when he sharply asked the moderator: "Who are you to suggest that it is good, given the way you guys in the news media bash candidates? Give me a break."

Mr. Schundler seized on the opportunity to accuse Mr. McGreevey of lying about Mr. Schundler's views on gun control. "Jim has been attacking me about gun issues," he said. "Look, I'll promise you right now that the gun laws will not change if I'm governor."

Mr. McGreevey slashed back: "It's not what you tell us tonight, Bret. You can't say one thing in front of one audience and something else in front of another."

The debate, at Rowan University in Glassboro, used a town meeting format. Mr. McGreevey and Mr. Schundler sat next to each other in desk chairs, facing the audience and three moderators. The setting seemed to favor Mr. Schundler, who in their first televised debate seemed to glower as he stood over a lectern.

But tonight, with a microphone in his hand, Mr. Schundler seemed relaxed and joked frequently, at one point kidding that he and his wife, Lynn, were the "only two" Republicans in Jersey City, where he served two terms as mayor. Later, Mr. Schundler suggested that his plan to eliminate tolls on the Garden State Parkway might reduce road rage. "I think it would add peace on earth and good will toward men," he joked. "It's almost spiritual."

Mr. McGreevey was not amused. "If weren't so said, it'd be funny, Bret," he said.

Mr. Schundler told the audience, "He has no sense of humor."

And Mr. McGreevey replied: "No, I don't have a sense of humor when it comes to not being straight with New Jersey. I believe the reality is that Mr. Schundler can't take down the tolls by October and neither can I."

If Mr. McGreevey was more somber, he also seemed more determined to lay out his agenda.

The Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington that have overshadowed the governor's race in the news — and in the minds of voters — continued to do so tonight.

Even when responding to a question about needle-exchange programs, Mr. Schundler felt obliged to mention that he would consider whether there would be any increased risk of biological terrorism by making needles more easily available to drug addicts.

And in response to a question about airline security, both candidates said they supported allowing pilots to carry guns while flying.

In one bright exchange on the environment, each man boasted that he was the one who could preserve open space and limit sprawl.

"If we want New Jersey to look like Los Angeles, where you have sprawl going everywhere, where the last farm is paved over, where you end up having all that traffic congestion, then support him," Mr. Schundler said.

Mr. McGreevey sniped back, "If you think everything's going well, and you think we don't have to change anything in the state of New Jersey in terms of open space, then respectfully vote for Mr. Schundler."

The debate, sponsored by Gannett Newspapers of New Jersey, was broadcast live on the CN8 24-hour television news channel and on the radio by New Jersey 101.5-FM.

[Hugh Akston]

Schundler made one gaffe in his answer on the gun laws. The point he had tried to make before was that there was no chance of anything getting through the legislature, and therefore anyone worried about gun control should not be. Instead, it sounded weak on guns to the right and like a panderer to the left.

Beyond that, however, he did well. Much better than his opponent in my estimation. The NY Times took note and responded with a hit piece that I will be posting shortly.