Gun Purchase: Braztech/Rossi R461 .357 Thoughts??

Me ^ | 10/18/2001 | Solson

[ReVeLaTioN]

Ruger GP-100 6" bbl...sweet! First timers...use double action pistols. Clearing a jammed semi with no practice can be lethal (and not for the offender).

[Drammach]

I bought a Rossi 22 cal revolver some 20 years ago, and still have it.
It has 2 cylinders, one for 22 short and another for 22 long rifle and 22 magnum.
First time I used magnum ammo, the brass swelled, and it took a hammer and steel rod to get the brass out of the cylinder chambers.
It works just fine with 22 long rifle though.

My suggestion? If You decide on the Rossi based on price, see if the dealer will let You test fire it first.
Make sure it's got the right "feel" to it, and the ammo doesn't stick in the chamber, easy to reload, etc..

Ask the dealer to recommend a few other handguns as well, and test fire them as well.
You might try finding a local Shooting range that has various handguns in stock for shooters to try out, as well.
They use them for training and educating new shooters.
In your case, You can try out several calibers and configurations, and see what suits You, as well as recieve some shooting experience, and possibly, if You're willing, some training in gun safety.

I would probably prefer a heavier frame weapon than the Taurus, but they make an excellent 357 identical to the pictured Rossi, and in Titanium, which is much lighter.

The advantages of the 357 is the interchangable ammo.
It will fire 38 special just as well, and 38 wadcutter reloads are a lot cheaper than 357 ammo.
Also, for greater accuracy, 38 special will provide less kick and muzzle climb in a 357 frame. Results? More shots accurately placed in a shorter time.

As long as You're not considering concealed carry but home defense, You might consider something with a longer barrel as well.
The snub nose is a more comfortable carry gun, but less accurate at longer ranges.

I noticed several people recommending a shotgun. I would ask You to consider one as well.
A 12 gauge pump shotgun will provide protection and some serious "show of force" power.
the sound of a pump shotgun is sure to get the attention of anyone bent on mischief.
Likewise, a 12 guage can be loaded with either shot, slugs, or specialty rounds like "flechettes" or even emergency flares.
I recommend a #9 bird shot, and for more serious work, a few #00 buckshot, alternating with slugs.

I hope this hasn't bored all the other "gun nuts" like me, but new shooters need to carefully consider what they are doing when buying a gun.
It is the power of Life and Death, and as You hold that power, You are responsible for Your actions.
Make sure You recieve proper and extensive training with an approved NRA instructor.

[KneelBeforeZod]

I don't know about know but Rossis used to be right down there with Llamas and Lorcins

[KneelBeforeZod]

make that "I don't know about NOW"

[ReVeLaTioN]

"A 12 gauge pump shotgun will provide protection and some serious "show of force" power. the sound of a pump shotgun is sure to get the attention of anyone bent on mischief" The sound is sure to get the attention of the offender..and give away your whereabouts at the same time. Don't forget...the perp will be just as alert and point in your direction. Something to think about.

[donozark]

In the "old days" when cops carried revolvers, all that I knew carried Colts/S&W. Even as backup weapons. Their lives depended on the weapons they had. Rossi? I'd research the heck out of 'em! I looked through some old issues of AMERICAN RIFLEMAN to see if I could find anything on them. I don't have any index, however, perhaps if you contact NRA or American Handgunner or some other magazine you night find a review of this particular weapon. GOOD LUCK! And remember, a .357 Magnum is a VERY unforgiving round! I have a GLOCK, a Makarov, CZ, etc. But I still love my PYTHON. I shoot 125gr. However, I have run some 158gr. through it and it BLASTS!!

[KeyLargo]

OH NO! WHAT WILL BABS SAY! ANOTHER BAD, BAD, GUN THREAD.

Anyway, I like a good old Colt Python. I have one of the originals. Boy, smooth action and solid pistol. You point that in some moron's face and he thinks that you have a Howitzer in you hand.

[Solson]

I've shot quite a few and really enjoy the .357 revolver. My biggest concern with this gun is it's barrel length as it will take away from accuracy, IMO.

Thanks for the feedback.

[from occupied ga]

I noticed several people recommending a shotgun. I would ask You to consider one as well. A 12 gauge pump shotgun will provide protection and some serious "show of force" power. the sound of a pump shotgun is sure to get the attention of anyone bent on mischief. Likewise, a 12 guage can be loaded with either shot, slugs, or specialty rounds like "flechettes" or even emergency flares. I recommend a #9 bird shot, and for more serious work, a few #00 buckshot, alternating with slugs.

I get so tired of reading this BS about shotguns for home defense from people who have never actually thought beyond what they read in some novel. A shotgun is a rather poor choice for home defense - especially a pump action shotgun. Those who recommend them haven't thought out the problems. Just consider these

1. length - try moving through your house at night in the dark with your shotgun (unloaded) see how easy it is to knock over lamps, and how hard it is to get through doors and still have the shotgun pointed where you want
2. difficulty of operation - Imagine that you've been wounded in one arm. see how easy it is to work the action with one hand
3. aditional difficulty of operation - try working the action from the prone position
4. Heavy recoil - At your favorite place of practice, fire a heavy load at a target and then see how long it takes you to acquire a second target as opposed to how long it takes with a handgun or subgun
5. Alerting the enemy - As far as the "sound of a pump shotgun" consider the marines' "This is my rifle..." - the part about it not being the sound, but the "hits that count" All the "sound..." will do is alert a criminal as to your position - very poor move
6. hit probability - at best the same as a handgun. the pattern will not have spread enough to notice at the typical "in the room distances" (unless your house is the size of Bill Gates') so your ability to hit is not enhanced by using shot
7. Lack of penetration - sometimes the bad guys wear body armor - shot (even buckshot) will not penetrate even IIA
8. Go through a scenario of just exactly what you'd do - cut a board shotgun the same length as a real one and go through just exactly what you'd do if you heard a) your window being broken or worse, B) your window broken and your wife screaming an another room. Then do the same thing with a fake handgun or subgun (my choice, but expensive since '87) See which is easier to use.
9. The SS does not use shotguns for protecting the pres. They use subguns (mini UZI) and handguns. Maybe they have considered the drawbacks of shotguns?

Bad advice can get someone killed. Before anyone buys a shotgun for home defense they should consider just exactly what gun will be the best from a number of criteria

[Robert357]

I've shot quite a few and really enjoy the .357 revolver.

OK, you are not a novice. Go for it. The Rossi is just fine from the experience I have with the one I inherited. If you haven't purchased it yet. I would urge you to buy a sainless steel one. Revolvers are famous for getting dirty all over and stainless is very forgiving as to prompt cleaning.

Since you also know that a snub nose lacks accuracy, you might think about that a little more. The range where I shoot most weekends requires one to be able to keep all the bullets on the paper target at 25 yards. Actually they like to make sure you keep them well away from the edge of the target as they want to encourage accuracy and not quick fire. I suspect that with no adjustable sites and a short barrel, even with a rest that accuracy will by hard, just because of site radius. Before, you buy, you may try to find a local indoor gun range that has rentals and try out different revolver barrel lengths.

I am sure that what you want is something for concealed carry and are thinking that a snubby is ideal. My recommendation would be to purchase a good "daytimer" style concealment holster or a nice shoulder holster and go with something with a little bit bigger barrel. Good Luck and enjoy.

[Billthedrill]

I'd demur from a couple of your points. For one thing, a shotgun is superior as a "safe-room" gun, as you're already in firing position and you aren't going anywhere. For another, prone is not a position that is particularly tactically useful in a home-defense situation; ranges are short and you are forced to use a rather unnatural up-angle on most shots if you take them from the prone position. Kneeling behind cover is what most tactical courses teach for this particular scenario.

As for giving your position away, it doesn't, really. Try triangulating on that sound in the field sometime - I can't do it. And you very may well want to let the invader know you're armed - if that will avoid a shooting situation, it's very much the better for all concerned. As somebody else pointed out above, it beats an "I'm armed" bleat from a shaky voice.

That said, people drastically underestimate shotgun penetration and overestimate spread with even birdshot. Inside a house your spread isn't going to be much more than fist-sized at the longest likely range, and yes, that'll go through wallboard - I've tested it. Here a handgun with frangible ammunition is "safest," but it's also safer for a perp with body armor and/or a heavy leather jacket. Me, I trust Hydra-shok and hit what I shoot at. But a handgun takes a lot of training to employ well, especially under stress.

Lastly, clearing a room isn't for amateurs. Even pros - especially pros - do it in teams, and they practice, practice, practice. Clearing a dark room against a prepared invader is a very good way to get killed, even in your own, familiar house. That doorframe isn't called the Box of Death for nothing...

[Drammach]

Think what you will. You are obviously (in Your own opinion) an authority.
I have 15 years of Law Enforcement, Corrections and Security experience, and I stand by my recommendations.

Your main complaint seems to be performing tactical maneuvers in the living room.
How assinine!
Even I would remain in the bedroom, load up the shotgun, and call the police.
You should be aware that there are LAWS concerning "shooting people". I would remain there, until the police arrived and told me it was safe to come out, or until someone attempted to force their way into the bedroom, at which time I would blow their heads off.

Body armor? Pretty rich crackheads You're talking about here.
Anyone wearing body armor is probably far more professional than the usual burglar or strong-arm robber.
They depend on stealth and avoidance, in the case of burglars, or, in the case of strong arm robbery, intimidation, brute strength and clubs, knives, etc. with less than half ever having a gun.
I have yet to see reports of common criminals using body armor, with the one exception of the infamous L.A. bank robbery using automatic weapons.

As for my wife screaming in another room, and the sound of breaking glass, I would move cautiously. I always move cautiously when carrying a loaded weapon, and always make sure I know what I'm shooting at.
That is why I recommended training.
I don't have to "go through scenarios", I have been in the middle of the real thing.

[SurferDoc]

For the same money you can get a police trade-in Smith&Wesson. I have several. The Ruger is excellent also. If its for your protection and your family's protection, buy the best you can afford. I prefer American revolvers, older ones in good condition especially.

[from occupied ga]

Think what you will. You are obviously (in Your own opinion) an authority.

I make no claims to any expertise whatsovever. I simply pointed out obvious flaws in your position

Even I would remain in the bedroom, load up the shotgun, and call the police.

Good advice, and I don't disagree except: 1 What if your phone has been cut, or 2 the wife screaming in the other room which is why I mentioned it.

You should be aware that there are LAWS concerning "shooting people".

These laws vary from state to state. In places like the peoples' democracies of Mass, NY, etc. , a person who defends themself or their home is considered a worse criminal that the one who does the invasion. From your response I would assume you are from a jurisdiction where self defense is considered a more serious crime than assault. And, if you are a "15 year veteran corrections ..." I would also assume that you are by definition a proponent of the demostrably false nanny state theory that the government (ie police) will protect you.

until someone attempted to force their way into the bedroom... Just for fun, imagine some real nasty types who set your house on fire before they leave

I have 15 years of Law Enforcement, Corrections and Security experience, and I stand by my recommendations.

AH, the old "I am an expert, so don't dare question me" argument. You really think that being a cop or a prison guard qualifies you as someone whose bad advice shouldn't be questioned? I raised several points, the only one which you legitimately addressed was tactical manuvers in a closed room by saying that you shouldn't do them. You dismissed the body armor by saying "... rich crackheads..."Implying that only poor crackheads commit home invasions. You didn't respond at all to my point about working a pump action shotgun when wounded or working the action prone. And you failed to address what I found to be the most stupid of all your statements, the one about the sound of the action. Well yes, it was well known to all young guys who enjoyed tropical vacations in SE Asia at government expense in the '60's and '70s that noisly racking your action before firing would often cause a number of enemies to drop dead from sheer fright (rather than firing at you) < /sarcasm off>

[from occupied ga]

For one thing, a shotgun is superior as a "safe-room" gun, as you're already in firing position and you aren't going anywhere

I agree here about the safe room thing, and given my choice holing up and waiting is what I'd do, but the reason that I mentioned the spouse screaming in the other room is that there are times when you might not be able to hole up and wait. If you have only one gun, do you want one that is only effective in one situation?

Kneeling behind cover is what most tactical courses teach for this particular scenario.

Again I don't disagree, but I was making the point that a pump action shotgun is an awkward weapon to operate, and if you are chosing a single home defense weapon, you should not pick an awkward one.

Try triangulating on that sound in the field sometime - I can't do it.

My hearing was damaged by firing many many rounds in my misspent youth, but I can still tell where a loud noise is coming from in a room. We're not talking about in the field

if that will avoid a shooting situation, it's very much the better for all concerned

I disagree here - certaintly better for the perpetrator but as for you? Maybe. If he/they leave at that point you're ahead of the game, but what if they don't? There have been a couple of home invasion robberies around Atlanta in the last couple of years where the robbers decided to kill everyone. Again whether you're in trouble for shooting them or not depends on the jurisdiction. I wouldn't live in a fascist police state like Mass, NY, RI, etc. if I could double my income by moving there .

[Drammach]

What if your phone has been cut, or 2 the wife screaming in the other room which is why I mentioned it.

1. I have a cellphone. If I didn't have one, I could use the fact that the phone line was cut as a defense for using deadly force.
2. I addressed that in my last post. Read it.

..... assume that you are by definition a proponent of the demo(n)strably false nanny state theory that the government (ie police) will protect you.

No, assume I do my best to obey the law, and let law enforcement handle it, if that option is available. Assume if it is not, I will deal with the situation with the appropriate amount of force necessary.
I won't bother to address the hypothetical armed burglar/robber/terrorist in full body armor that suddenly decides to add Arson to his repertoire.
You're getting ridiculous.
Also, assume that since I have made no statement supporting "Nannyism" that I am a supporter of gun rights and a constitutionalist. In fact, don't just assume it, I'm saying it. Less government, more freedom.

...the old "I am an expert, so don't dare question me" argument...

Never said I was an expert, said I have "experience".
I have actually used handguns and shotguns in actual combat conditions.
I have worked Unarmed, locked in a facility where I and fellow corrections officers are outnumbered, 40 to 1.
I understand what a show of force can and cannot do. I understand the difference between necessary and un-necessary force.
do you?

Body armor.. Implying that only poor crackheads commit home invasions...

"Rich" crackheads don't commit home invasions, unless it's the home of a fellow drug user or dealer.
Most burglaries are done by "poor"walking perps, and their burglaries are ones of opportunity, not planning.
Ain't got no car, ain't got no girl, ain't got no money, ain't got no home.

...my point about working a pump action shotgun when wounded or working the action prone...

Somebody else addressed that, so I didn't bother.
I believe they implied You were an idiot.

...I found to be the most stupid of all your statements, the one about the sound of the action.

See above, concerning show of force.
read any of the Self Defence articles posted monthly in the NRA's "American Rifleman" magazine..
Many criminal types are averse to being shot. Simply "showing" a gun is enough to convince them resistance is futile.

....all young guys who enjoyed tropical vacations in SE Asia at government expense in the '60's and '70s .. ( ad nauseum )

First of all sonny, You are not good enough to lick their butts. Vacation my A$$..
Second, You don't warn an enemy soldier. You are free to KILL them at Your own discretion. Then walk up and put a "finishing shot" in the head just in case they're faking death.
Once we get rid of all the Liberal and Socialist Democrats (and Republicans) presently in office, maybe we can change the laws to reflect that criminals are "the enemy" and we can treat them the same.
As for You, I will gladly buy You a one-way ticket to Russia, France, (or Hanoi) if You think it's better there.

[sheik yerbouty]

If you're in an apartment, a shotgun or a 45 Colt Auto would be best. Both have "pointability" and are not overly penetrative; or else use the 357, but with frangible bullets like a Glaser.

[Don Myers]

bttt

[from occupied ga]

First of all sonny, You are not good enough to lick their butts. Vacation my A$$..Not only are you rude, but you are obviously too dull to recognize sarcasm when you see it even with the sarcasm tag on, so I don't know whether continuing this discussion with you is worth my time, and a jail guard ain't exactly who I'd ask about anything let alone about how to defend myself in a life or death situation.

in your own words You don't warn an enemy soldier. You are free to KILL them at Your own discretion. Then walk up and put a "finishing shot" in the head just in case they're faking death. well guess what? Anyone who breaks into my house with me present is the enemy and deserves just exactly the same warning as NVA or VC got. What I find particularly amusing about you is your total inability to see anything except your own flawed arguments. In fact you've resorted to personal attacks without knowing anything about me at all other than I challenged your pompous windy crap about pump action shotguns. Keep your pump action shotgun, and I'll keep my UZI. (you probably couldn't afford one anyway)

[fiery_flirt]

In my own humble opinion, as a relative novice...I have found, the barrel length, or lack thereof..lol, on the Rossi .357 snubnose I acquired from my father, kinda forced me to become more proficient when I decided to choose to carry it, instead off the .38 4" barreled revolver he gave me at the time. I suppose it's just a matter of choice, but I also suppose when you make that decision that you really should make sure you're going to commit yourself to becoming accurate with your chosen weapon. IMO.