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To: winodog
I have not researched Graham but I have heard that he has been known to water down the gospel.

Graham preaches the Romans road to salvation from hell. He preaches that you must be born again, or you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That is the first step for any person, and the most important.

I have never heard of him preaching that Jesus wants to heal everyone every minute of every sickness and every disease. I preached this once and God healed my boss' wife of a severe ear infection instantly as a sign and a wonder to confirm that what I preached was part of the whole gospel. I knew before hand what I preached was accurate, but God confirmed it for her.

I have never heard of him preaching on the Glory or much about the end times, though I think he may have touched on the latter. But these are part of the gospel because they have to do with God saving us. Not just from hell, but from sin and from death and the wrath of God that is coming- and it is coming, I assure you.

I have never heard him preaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the evidence of talking in other tongues, but that is also part of the gospel, for Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you will receive power to be a witness unto all the nations. That power is part of the gospel, for it has to do with the spreading of the gospel in power. The world deserves a gospel accompanied with the power of God. There should be more power demonstrated than preached, but these days there is less (except in some quarters).

Why don't people have power, healing, and the others? Because they don't believe. The people in Jesus' home town did not believe, and the bible says that Jesus could not do any miracle there except to heal a few sick folks (and the phrase referred to people with minor sicknesses). It does not say that he would not, but he could not. We are the only thing keeping Jesus from performing powerful miracles today.
57 posted on 10/17/2001 3:52:19 PM PDT by greggy
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To: greggy
I am not a authority and I will not go over every point you have made but it seems to me you are very good at pointing out where others are wrong in your mind.It also seems to me that you are doing more correcting then teaching.I believe the bible says teachers of Gods word will be judged more harshly.

When you walk on the slippery slope of people not being healed because they dont believe or have no faith you are teaching a lie of the devil. And you can never ever ever ever say Jesus did not heal because he could not. He might have chose not to but it was not because he could not. That is putting a limit on Gods power and there is no limit to Gods power.

82 posted on 10/17/2001 6:13:42 PM PDT by winodog
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To: greggy; CCWoody; the_doc; RnMomof7; Uriel1975
"I have never heard of him preaching that Jesus wants to heal everyone every minute of every sickness and every disease."

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. - II Corinthians 12:7-10

I guess that the Apostle Paul didn't have enough of your type of faith?

91 posted on 10/18/2001 6:12:54 AM PDT by Jerry_M
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To: greggy; Uriel1975; the_doc; CCWoody; RnMomof7
"We are the only thing keeping Jesus from performing powerful miracles today."

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure - Isaiah 46:9,10

It will come as news to God that He is dependent upon you for anything. Of course, you take great pride in the fact that He is powerless without your assistance, don't you?

92 posted on 10/18/2001 6:27:00 AM PDT by Jerry_M
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To: greggy
I have never heard him preaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the evidence of talking in other tongues,

That's because Scripture gives no credence to this "tongues as evidence" litmus test put forward by Pentecostals.

 but that is also part of the gospel,

Really? So one is not saved unless he/she speaks in tongues?

for Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you will receive power to be a witness unto all the nations.

How does speaking in tongues and power to witness correlate? Surely, you've seen many people who speak in tongues and who are just as weak as others?

That power is part of the gospel, for it has to do with the spreading of the gospel in power.

Agreed, but you have nowhere demonstrated that this power comes from speaking in tongues.

The world deserves a gospel accompanied with the power of God. There should be more power demonstrated than preached, but these days there is less (except in some quarters).

Amen, the world deserves more power accompanied by godliness from the church and less... talk.

FWIW, I am not a cessationist and I believe in the gift of languages.  I believe Paul's epistles are clearer on the use of "tongues" and that we shouldn't derive church doctrine merely from descriptive historical narratives. 

I had the unfortunate experience of attending a United Pentecostal cult when I was a child but I was soundly saved in a Classical Trinitarian Pentecostal church as a young man.  I have attended various charismatic churches as well (including the extreme "name it, claim it", five-fold, prophetic, latter-rain aberrations). 

I am not anti-charismatic as such, but the modern movement has become wholesale corrupt and for the most part has left the orthodox church and has planted both feet solidly in the kingdom of the cults. 

It is from years of introspection and study that I have arrived at these conclusions and I credit this to the fact that when God saved me, he gave me a hunger for truth (as he does all true converts).  I didn't blindly accept the party line; I accepted most of what I was taught but as soon as the Holy Spirit gave me new light on the matter, I immediately shed it without delay.  I really have never understood why this isn't true with all Christians; I suspect some have "grown up" within this tradition or that, have something to lose, etc. but that doesn't entirely explain all of it to me.

I have no doubt that what you write you sincerely believe to be true; unfortunately, reason and the Scriptural record simply doesn't bear this out.

230 posted on 11/28/2004 9:20:13 PM PST by streetpreacher (There will be no Trolls in heaven.)
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