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As to "saint worship", I would again remind you that those in Christ, though they die, yet they are alive. Thus, we can ask their prayers. We honor the saints as Christ's friends, and those through whom God has shown forth his Uncreated Glory. The veneration of saints is a natural secondary outgrowth of the worship of the source of the Uncreated Glory (God), but is not worship itself.

I would remind you that images made of the saints and mary as objects of adoration are in direct violation of the commandment to the contrary - no matter how it is worded, painted or him-hawed around. The saints are alive in Christ but dead in the flesh, including Mary. As such, speach to them is the same as speaking to any other that is not with us - Jewish law forbids it and the Lord came to fulfill, not put away the law. Your doctrines cannot break the laws and commands of God and be other than disobedience - no matter how much I may like you. You cannot violate the law of God and make doctrine of doing so and yet call yourself obedient.

By the way, glad to get a response. Thank you. Too often protestant posters refuse to answer me.

If you had'nt said something, I might not have responded. I didn't see it posted. Happy to answer.

I would remind you that images made of the saints and Mary as objects of adoration are in direct violation of the commandment to the contrary - no matter how it is worded, painted or him-hawed around.

There you have it, iconoclasm is back. So when do you want to start smashing the icons? Seems like it was just 1200 years ago at Nicaea II this was settled.

Ah, you don't read Greek do you. The words in the commandment in the Greek Old Testament (the Septuigent or LXX, translated by the Jews in the 3rd century AD, and quoted from by most NT writers--only when playing with the Hebrew vowels is necessary to get a prophecy to be plain do any of them stray from the LXX) are eidolon (idol) and homoioma (likeness). There is nothing against an eikon (icon, or image).

The Fathers also point out that any attempt to make an image of the unseen God before the Incarnation would necessarily be false. Things changed with the Incarnation: God took on humanity, and with it depictability; God also entered into matter in a new way in the Incarnation. To deny the appropriateness of the Holy Icons ultimately always comes down to a doubt about the reality of the Incarnation. Once one depicts Christ, what argument is there against depicting His Mother, and his friends, the saints? Do you oppose all representational art as do strict Muslims?

As to the honor shown to the Holy Icons. The Fathers point out that the honor shown an image is actually honor directed toward the prototype (another reason idols are wicked--either their prototype is something dishonorable, a beast or demon, or nonexistent). We do the same with symbols, we salute the flag, and are angry when people desecrate it.

There is a wonderful story about on of the saints who opposed the iconocasts (an Emperor of your opinion). The Emperor argued with the saint (a monk) that the honor shown an icon was honor directed at the matter, not at the prototype. The monk took a coin with the Emperor's portrait on the obverse, threw it on the ground and ground it into the stones with his heel. The Emperor was outraged and sent the monk to eternal glory as a holy martyr.