[malakhi]

angelo: So this is one of those doctrines that evolves? That has developed and become more nuanced

dignan3: In a word, yes.

OK, the solemn declaration, proclamation, and definition by a pope "that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff" has 'evolved' to the point where in Vatican II, the Church in Council under the pope acknowledges that in fact submission to the Roman Pontiff is not absolutely necessary for salvation. 'Evolution' cannot turn a doctrine into its exact opposite, can it? The earlier statement is in reality overturned, but no one will acknowledge it. Boniface and Vatican II cannot both be correct. Either one or the other is wrong. FWIW, I think y'all have it right now, and it was Boniface that was in error.

[SoothingDave]

It realy hinges on what is meant by "every human creature." It simply does not include whole classes of people who either did not exist then, or were not known about then. Today the phrase has a broader meaning.

SD

[Havoc]

OK, the solemn declaration, proclamation, and definition by a pope "that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff" has 'evolved' to the point where in Vatican II, the Church in Council under the pope acknowledges that in fact submission to the Roman Pontiff is not absolutely necessary for salvation. 'Evolution' cannot turn a doctrine into its exact opposite, can it? The earlier statement is in reality overturned, but no one will acknowledge it. Boniface and Vatican II cannot both be correct. Either one or the other is wrong. FWIW, I think y'all have it right now, and it was Boniface that was in error.

Thank you, Angelo. I think you drove that home pretty well. I would go further than you have. Everyone who has touched and revised it is in error.