I, Hopefulpilgrim, wrote: If one takes this statement ("This is My body") literally, one would have to take all other metaphors He employed literally also.
SoothingDave wrote: You have simply started with a fallacy. We use our judgment to determine what is literal and what is figurative. You are saying that we are not allowed to discern, we must accept everything as literal or everything as figurative. I suppose this includes the stories about the Resurrection as well.
First of all, you are right---the way in which I worded it DID make the statement fallacious. Let me try it again: If one takes this statement ("This is My body") literally, other OBVIOUS metaphors could also be taken literally, such as "I am the Vine; you are the branches." (Well, I'm not sure how much better that is, but I hope you understand my gist.)
Thank you for recognizing the fallacy, when pointed out. Now, on we go. This amended statement of yours hinges on the word "obvious." To you, Jesus at the Last Supper is obviously speaking metaphorically. Not so to me. That was kind of my entire point -- discerning which things to take literally and which figuratively and which both and neither is the task of making sense of Scripture. It's what we are discussing here.
Second, I thought y'all couldn't use common discernment when reading the scriptures.
Says who? We are certainly free to use any of the intellectual tools Our Lord gave us. What we should not do is use our own reading to develop heretical doctrine.
You also wrote: ...in order to puzzle out what he meant when he used metaphors like "I and the Father are one" and "He who has seen me has seen the Father"
Why do you call these metaphors? I see these as statements of fact.
That's my point. What I may see as metaphors, you see as strightforward fact. And vice versa. (In this case I am playing devil's advocate, but I have seen confused folks read those statments metaphorically.)
SD
You replied: This amended statement of yours hinges on the word "obvious." To you, Jesus at the Last Supper is obviously speaking metaphorically. Not so to me.
Oh, but it IS obviously a figure of speech! For one thing, interpreting His words ("This is My body") as being figurative is the logical way to interpret it. Besides, there is NO precedence anywhere in Scripture for equating an inanimate object, such as bread, with a living being.