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To: First Conservative
By calling the quotation from YOUR "Cardinal" Hosius a fraud, you are claiming he did not make such a statement. Incidentally, your assertion of my reference for that quote is incorrect, although "The Trail of Blood" is a book I would recommend to any seeker of the TRUTH! The source for the quote: Cardinal Stanislaus Hosius, Letters, APUD OPERA, pp 112,113.

Let's see what 5 minutes of web time can find. Let's search google.com for "APUD OPERA." Well looke here, first entry.

http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/forgeries/hosius.html

An excerpt:

The purported statement is nowhere to be found in the letters of Cardinal Hosius

There is no section titled "Apud Opera" among Hosius‘ complete works. And there is no letter of that name. So the reference "Letters, Apud Opera" is apparently meaningless. Similarly, I could find no publication of his with this title.

I decided to check all of Cardinal Hosius‘ letters for references to the Anabaptists. The section in his "Opera Omnia" entitled "Liber Epistelarum" contains all of Cardinal Hosius‘ letters, 277 in total, written in Latin. I have read through all of these letters, and in only 12 of them (letters XXVIII, XLI, XLIII, CV, CXVI, CXXVIII, CXXIX, CXXXIV, CL, CLVII, CLVIII, and CLX) is there any mention of the Anabaptists. In none of them is to be found the statement cited at the top. To all intents and purposes, this statement appears to be a fake.

Nowhere in the letters of Hosius are the "reformers" referred to as such. Rather, they are referred to as "Lutherani", "Calvinisti", "Zuingliani" and, especially in his other works, "haeretici". The purported statement of Hosius uses language he never uses in his "Opera omnia", and so its authenticity must be called into question.

The citation by various Baptist websites of two completely different purported statements by Cardian Hosuis, both given the same page reference, adds to the doubt about the genuineness of either. (The second purported statement is quoted in Note 1 below). The said statements are purported to be found on pages 112, 113 of "Apud Opera". However, only one statement can be found crossing over from page 112 to 113. How can you get two different statements, both starting on page 112 and both ending on page 113? (The only possibility would be if one statement were embedded in the other, but that is clearly not the case here.)

Well gee. The purported work does not exist. In his other works he refers to particular heresies by name, and not as "reformers," so even the language used is suspect.

And finally different Baptist "historians" cite two different quotes as appearing on the same two pages of this nonexistant work.

Yep, that's Protestant (Baptist) scholarship for ya.

Tell me about TRUTH again.

SD

391 posted on 10/16/2001 2:23:18 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Gee Dave, we both found that site pretty quick. I actually had it bookmarked because this alleged quote seems to be quite popular with some of our posters. I wonder if this is somehow tied in with the false decretals or is this a Jesuit conspiracy?
393 posted on 10/16/2001 2:35:34 PM PDT by pegleg
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To: SoothingDave
Re your 391, pegleg's 393, et al, apparently attempting to refute YOUR "Cardinal" Hosius's statements concerning baptists.

Nice try - in fact I am astounded you were able to read all 55(?) of his letters - in Latin, no less - in such a short time.

Why do I not believe you or your sources? Hasn't Havoc commented extensively enough on the manner in which YOUR church creates documents, as needed, to establish the lengths to which YOUR church will go to promote their doctrines? Why should anyone doubt the keepers of Hosius' letters would make certain none would survive that could contradict YOUR church's beliefs?

Since we know fundamental baptists will go to any length to fabricate history (SARCASM), it would be obvious that Baptist Magazine in their May 1826 issue (CVII, p 278) made up the whole thing - NOT!

(Incidentally, my information comes from Three Witnesses for the Baptists by Curtis Pugh, published in April 1994. Your "Cardinal" Hosius is only one witness by Baptist enemies or other non-baptists as to the facts of history. That is TRUTH, oh "all-knowing and wise" Seething Dave - oops, "soothing" Dave :)

Pegleg will give you the website address - he gave it to me.

412 posted on 10/16/2001 4:19:14 PM PDT by First Conservative
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