(What Havoc said -unedited version as quoted by Reggie) You haven't established in scripture that any man has been given the Place of Christ at the head of the Church in any capacity - regardless of what you wish to make it look as though Peter might be - or anyone else for that matter. Jesus didn't pick a successor because no one can succeed Him. He isn't dead. Long live the King!
So, Reggie, what is the difference? I have had about enough of you accuseing me of quoting out of context. What has changed? Havoc still said the same thing which implied that Catholics teach that Jesus has a "successor" and that He is dead. What is the big fat difference between the "full" quote you quoted and the "misleading" quote I quoted?
Does anyone else see? Can somebody help me?
(SD) This is making the implication that Catholics believe that Peter and the popes are "successors" to Jesus. And that we beleive that Jesus is dead.
(Reggie) Of course, Havoc never implied that anyone believed Jesus was dead. Another "Dave Straw Man".
Yes, he did. Duh. Read the quote you quoted and that I quoted. He says that Jesus didn't pick a successsor, He isn't dead. What am I supposed to make from that? I read things in context and that is obviously a slur on me and Catholic belief.
Or am I to believe that each sentence that everyone writes is wholly unrelated to any other sentence?
Again: (SD) That's a strawman, dude. The Pope is not a successor to Jesus and we do not teach that Jesus is dead.
(Reggie) The strawman is Dave's, only Dave's. However, there are some Catholic sources, just as "official" as SpinningDave which teach otherwise.
Oh, do go on. Let's see the official Catholic sources that teach Jesus is dead. Not that I trust any of your scholarship for a minute, but let's pretend these are real quotes anyway.
Vatican I devotion ascribed to the pope the title "King of Kings" and "'Supreme Ruler of the World." This excessive veneration included appellations such as "Vice-God of Humanity" and "Exalted King of the Universe."
So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
The Vatican Newspaper La Civilta Cattolica recorded that the pope was the "Mind of God" and pontificated that "when the pope meditates, it is God Who thinks in him." So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
Bishop Bereaud of Tulle, France, wrote that "the pope was the Word of God made flesh, living in our midst."
This has to be a lie. But anyway, So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
John Bosco reminded us that the pope was "God on earth" while triumphantly proclaiming that "Jesus has placed the pope higher than the prophets, than John the Baptist, and than all the angels." He concluded, to no one's surprise, that "Jesus has put the pope on the same level as God"! (John Bosco, Meditazioni, Vol. 1: 2nd ed., pp. 89-90)
Another lie, I'm sure. Still So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
Moreri (Roman Theologian): "To make war against the pope is to make war against God, seeing that the pope is God and God is the pope."
Ripped otu of context, certainly. Anyway So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
Nicolaus de Tudeschis, in "Commentaria" (lvi, 34): "The pope can do all things God can do."
Context would be helpful. Nevertheless So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
Pope Leo XIII: "We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty." (June 20, 1894; Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII: Benziger Brothers, "Reunion of Christendom", p. 304)
So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
Pope (St.) Pius X: "The pope is not only representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the pope speak? It is Jesus Christ Himself Who speaks."
Lofty language, not to be misunderstood literally. Besides So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
Not to be outdone, Pope Pius XI declared: "You know that I am the Holy Father, the representative of God on earth, the Vicar of Christ, which means that I am God on earth." (Butler, Scriptural Truths for Roman Catholics: Dr. B. Brewer, Mission to Catholics, Int.)
So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
...and in modern times...
Lest anyone think that things have changed from those triumphal days of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, they have only to read the words uttered recently by Cardinal John O'Connor of New York: "The Holy Father is the true successor of Christ on earth." (Sermon, St. Patrick's Cathedral, New York, March 1987)
In a sense he is. So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
Until the ritual was terminated by Pope John Paul I, when the triple crown was placed on the head of a new Pope at his "coronation" the officiating cardinal proclaimed: "Receive the tiara adorned with three crowns, and know that thou art the Father of Princes and Kings, Ruler of the World; the Vicar of Our Saviour Jesus Christ..."
So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
The celebrated New York Catechism states clearly and proclaims, somewhat embarrassingly, that, "The pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth... the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth." (Exact Translation)
So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
MOUNT NEBO, Jordan, March 20, 2000 (Reuters): "The Pope is the king of the whole world" Caroline Neemah, a 78-year-old Christian resident of Madaba, as she waited for the Pope's motorcade. Even the common Catholic pilgrim has a distorted sense who is King.
So? Doesn't say Jesus is dead, does it?
Now what were you trying to prove?
SD
I understand that you are a strident and committed defender of the Papacy. But would you admit that it is possible that the authority of the Pope has been overstated at times by the Catholic hierarchy, and that there is a need for the conception of his authority to be clearly dilineated?