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To: Havoc
I note you are posting only the Catholic side of that ongoing debate series.

Just as you post the non C side... :)

I did post the link to the non C site so anyone could see the "other side" to what I posted if they were interested. Anyway, I posted the entire thing because I had not seen it addressed except by you. I have not studied the issue in depth as you have, but I am trying to work up to it. Looks like a "he said" "she said" issue to me.

No one condones forgeries btw, so I am not doing that. I can't anyway because as I've said, I only know the surface of the issue. I do have to say that from what I have read, the decretals were first questioned for authenticity by Catholics and the last of the decretals that were declared forgeries (in the 1800s?) were declared forgeries by Catholics as well. I'm pretty sure no Church would want forged anything as a part of their history.

I believe one of the reasons that the NT took so long to put together was because of the amount of forgeries that were circulating even 100 years after the death of Christ. My point is that since Jesus' time, forgeries have been abundant and the problem has been deciding what was real and what was not. In case anyone is wondering, the decretals Havoc is talking about were written in France probably 3 Popes (not sure in years) before they ever made it to Rome - they had been accepted in general use well before Rome ever got them.

24,418 posted on 02/05/2002 9:14:41 PM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
I believe one of the reasons that the NT took so long to put together was because of the amount of forgeries that were circulating even 100 years after the death of Christ. My point is that since Jesus' time, forgeries have been abundant and the problem has been deciding what was real and what was not. In case anyone is wondering, the decretals Havoc is talking about were written in France probably 3 Popes (not sure in years) before they ever made it to Rome - they had been accepted in general use well before Rome ever got them.

3 popes prior - no. The title "pope" didn't exist before Nicholos I, first of all. Second of all, a couple of the documents were much earlier forgeries. Third, it is known that they were created in the time of Nicholos because of certain things Nicholos commissioned done prior to the inclusion of the decretals. They were well aware of the actual history because of the studies done. Such a study would tell them both what they had to work with and what they would have to fabricate. You have to get deeper into the history of what was going on to see the whole picture. Most are not willing to do that. I might also throw in the fact that certain writings that were drawn from, in my readings were available only to Nicholas at the time. Pretty hard to pawn guilt off on someone else in that light.

24,713 posted on 02/06/2002 4:24:22 PM PST by Havoc
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