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To: Havoc
Whose gain? Read for comprehension much?

Yep, sure do. And apart from Giving birth, Mary has not one whit to do with salvation. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada.. She is not diety, not the creator of a God, not a 'Co' anything.blahblahblahblah you can too.

Havoc you stated that Vatican II gave Mary ownership of the graces of Christ. I pointed to the section quoted and highlighted the exact point where the gains are attributed to Christ only, and Mary is termed the dispenser of the graces. Now, do you have something from the Vatican backing up what you said, or will you retract it? Or will you just give me another lecture?

SD

2,325 posted on 10/23/2001 12:07:09 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Havoc you stated that Vatican II gave Mary ownership of the graces of Christ. I pointed to the section quoted and highlighted the exact point where the gains are attributed to Christ only, and Mary is termed the dispenser of the graces. Now, do you have something from the Vatican backing up what you said, or will you retract it? Or will you just give me another lecture?

This is a shell game. Does Christ have it or does Mary.. The argument here is not who the 'gifts' or 'graces' were given to.. it is the dispensation. All was and is Given by God through Jesus. Jesus is the meeting point, Mary isn't in the picture - not even close. And no amount of semantics or chasing your tail changes that.

Mary has no authority. And there is *only one* mediator given between God and Man - the Lord Jesus. If he's the only mediator, he's the only dispenser because he's the only channel of communication between you and God. Mary neither has any role in this, nor would she have business attempting to claim such a role. NOR does anyone have any business claiming such a role for her or anyone else. Mary didn't die for your sins to be the 1 and only mediator between man and God. She popped a baby out in God's will. Blessed: Yes. Mediator/Dispensor - Not in the lifetime of this universe!

2,515 posted on 10/24/2001 12:21:02 PM PDT by Havoc
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