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To: hopefulpilgrim
Do you choke on the concept of Theotokos, or "God-bearer"?

Well, I can't find that word in my Gk.lexicon, so I assume it's not a title that God Himself ever used. As I said before (#1293), it's a term I prefer not to use because it places more of an emphasis on Mary than is afforded her in the scriptures.

She is addressed as "mother of the Lord" in Scripture.

Technically, I suppose you could say that "Mary was the mother of God," but my gut-feeling is that it seems to elevate her above God. "Mary was the mother of the Son of God" is better for me.

This gut-feeling is what I wish to address. When the term Theotokos is used it, like other technical terms in any field, has a certain meaning. Havoc has a conniption about it because it sounds like we are making Mary create God or pre-exist God. You say it "elevates" her above God.

That is your impression and if we know anything from the past few decades it is that your feelings are valid. But to knock down a Truth because of your feelings about what it could mean, but does not; instead of what it actually means is silly.

I really don't even see why it is an issue nor why anyone would WANT to call her that so badly that fights would break out over it! Why not just Mary, Jesus' mother? I don't understand why her "title" is of any importance at all. Just call her what God calls her.

You mean "Mama!" Excellent suggestion.

(I fear you meant something else. We fight so badly over it becasue it is True, and many wish to attack this truth, most of them in abject ignorance. You also reveal an ignorance as to the reason for calling Mary the Mother of God. It is a testament to the eternal divinity of Jesus. He was God before He was Incarnated and He was God (and Man) when He was Incarnated. Mary bore God in her womb testifys to who Jesus is, not who Mary is. As I've said a few thousand times, when we really question someone who denies Mary her role, we find someone who denies Jesus' divinity.)

SD

1,864 posted on 10/22/2001 12:05:34 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave; hopefulpilgrim
As I've said a few thousand times, when we really question someone who denies Mary her role, we find someone who denies Jesus' divinity.)

Mary is not the mother of God. It is true that Jesus Christ is God the Son, and Mary was the mother of Jesus, but the New Testament does not even hint that Mary should be thought of as the mother of God. Jesus Christ, as God the Son, had no beginning. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (Jn. 1:1). Christ as God had no mother, or beginning. It was only His human, earthly existence which began in the womb of Mary. She is the mother of His humanity, not His divinity.

The Godhead has no motherhood!

BigMack

1,877 posted on 10/22/2001 12:28:05 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: SoothingDave
Do you choke on the concept of Theotokos, or "God-bearer"?...As I've said a few thousand times, when we really question someone who denies Mary her role, we find someone who denies Jesus' divinity.

The goal in any theological discussion is not only to communicate what one holds to be true from God's revelation concerning Himself, but also to guard against misunderstanding which comes about by the use of language that leads to conclusions not revealed in God's word. The term, "theotokos" does leave room for one to conclude that Mary is the origin of Christ's diety. Even the Council of Chalcedon recognized the need for a qualifying phrase to guard against such a misconception. That Council declared Mary to be the mother of God according to His manhood. The title "mother of our Lord" is sufficient to state her relationship to the Christ. To falsely accuse protestants who prefer the biblical term, "mother of our Lord," of rejecting the diety of Christ would be equivalent to a protestant accusing catholics of declaring Mary to be the originator of God Himself without trying to understand their theology in its historical context. These kinds of false accusations neither promote the search for common understanding nor give us a fuller understanding of God Himself.

2,090 posted on 10/23/2001 12:12:04 AM PDT by hopefulpilgrim
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