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What follows is a pure cut and paste. I submit it because it sounds reasonable to this poor slob. Starting with Clement, the bishop of Alexandria (150 - 215 CE), who confirms in Outlines, Bk. VI, "Peter, James (bar Zebedee) and John, after the ascension of the Saviour, did not claim pre-eminence because the Saviour had especially honored them, but chose James the Righteous as Bishop of Jerusalem." .Eusebius (263 - 339 CE), Historia Ecclesia ii,23.4: ".....turned their attention to James, the Lord's brother, who had been elected by the apostles to the episcopal throne at Jerusalem." Hmmmm! That's funny, Eusebius seems to agree with Clement. Hegesippus (c. 100 - 160 CE), Bk 5: "Control of the Church passed to the Apostles, together with the Lord's brother James...." Now Hegesippus was a first generation member of the Jerusalem Assembly of Jesus’ disciples and family. He knew the folks.....how could he have gotten so confused?? Origen (185 - 254 CE), quoting early Josephus: "These things happened to the Jews in requital for James the Righteous, who was a brother of Jesus, known as Christ." Josephus (37 - c. 100 CE), Antiquities xx: "So he assembled a counsel of judges and brought before it James, the brother of Jesus, known as Christ." Clement: "When James the Righteous had suffered martyrdom like the Lord and for the same reason, Symeon, the son of his Uncle Clopas, was appointed bishop. He being a cousin of the Lord." Eusebius: "A group of heretics accused the descendants of Jude...the brother, humanly speaking, of the Savior...on the ground that they were of David's line and related to Christ himself." The brother, HUMANLY SPEAKING???? Now what do you suppose he meant by that?? Hegesippus: "...and these still survived of the Lord's family, the grandsons of Jude, who was said to be His brother, humanly speaking." Luke: Acts 1:14 "These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother (MHTHR) of Jesus and with his brothers (ADELFOI)." The Greek usage (in parentheses) that LUKE so"incorrectly" used, just to confuse all of us, is mine. ----------------------------------------------------------- Go here for full argument. In any event, do any of you suppose you can show just when "Perpetual Virginity" became an issue in the Church?

Arent these the people that usually support their argument? How they gonna respond to this?