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To: the808bass
The idea of regeneration by the Spirit is not present in just a few verses with questionable interpretations. You may not like the phrase "born again" or the attendant baggage, but one cannot escape the Biblical idea of the Spirit that gives life and regenerates the degenerate who place their trust in Christ.

Agreed, although regeneration is more commonly associated with Baptism than with placing ones trust in Christ (and let's not go back over Spirit vs. Water Baptism etc...), as crucial as that is. I would point out, however, that "on this rock" is also hardly the only verse speaking to the foundation and authority of the Church.

A similar argument can be made that there are MANY verses speaking of the value of scripture, but none of them imply that scripture is the sole authority.

My point was that it's your "team" that seems to have a "proof text" type of problem, not the RCs. Why I've been to many services where the pastor may only quote a single verse and then expound for 30-45 min on "needs must go through". As valuable as that is... It isn't really the Catholics who say "Oh here's a neat verse... let's build a doctrine off of it" which seemed to be what your post implied.

Greatings, by the way, I've been gone too long contemplating my navel since the attacks.

138 posted on 10/15/2001 3:48:56 PM PDT by IMRight
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To: IMRight
...though regeneration is more commonly associated with Baptism than with placing ones trust in Christ...

Commonly by whom? It certainly isn't among those Christians I know. It is common with those who rely on their church and their works to get them to heaven, rather that the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

147 posted on 10/15/2001 4:24:25 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: IMRight; the808bass
It isn't really the Catholics who say "Oh here's a neat verse... let's build a doctrine off of it" which seemed to be what your post implied.

Another underhanded pitch...

No that common RC way is to develope a doctrine out of the needs of the RC heirarchy and authorities over a good period of time, then go back, when necessary, and "find" verses that they say support this forced doctrine. Good example of this: Matthew 16:18.

150 posted on 10/15/2001 4:34:06 PM PDT by Iowegian
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